Vera - Smarter Home Control Forum

General => Video Camera Control => Topic started by: Hottoy on July 13, 2017, 11:33:22 am

Title: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: Hottoy on July 13, 2017, 11:33:22 am
I have tried searching the forum but haven't found a solid current outdoor dome PTZ recommendation.   Will be moving to a new home and looking to upgrade from my current vera lite and foscam to some newer cameras.  Looking for Vera plus UI7 compatibleDome PTZ, camera  recommendations that will cover pool area for snowbird 2nd home.  Ideally, I would like to stay below 400/ camera but willing to go higher if needed to get a reliable secure solution.   

I appreciate any knowledge or experience provided by Vera forum members
Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: Priest on July 13, 2017, 01:51:22 pm
I think I may really need to start taking advantage of my company's product purchasing policy. Anything we get from our distributors can be purchased at company cost, which is about 20% - 50% off retail.  If the Hikvision cameras work for you we get really good pricing on those, I could help you pick some out.
Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: Hottoy on July 13, 2017, 02:34:18 pm
Very interested in that approach.   The DS-2DE3304W-DE  seems to be on the short list but it's unclear if this integrates with Vera IU7 and if it has night vision. 
Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: integlikewhoa on July 13, 2017, 03:16:29 pm
What is considered "Vera plus UI7 compatible" what do you want to be able to do with it?
Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: Priest on July 13, 2017, 03:24:08 pm
Very interested in that approach.   The DS-2DE3304W-DE  seems to be on the short list but it's unclear if this integrates with Vera IU7 and if it has night vision.

currently on sale at new-egg cheaper than my discount

https://flash.newegg.com/Product/9SIA9J34552297?nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwordsNF-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwordsNF-PC-_-pla-_-IP+%2f+Network+Cameras-_-9SIA9J34552297&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs6vWuv2G1QIV1EwNCh0pBwVAEAYYAiABEgLvXfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: Hottoy on July 13, 2017, 04:29:18 pm
What is considered "Vera plus UI7 compatible" what do you want to be able to do with it?

I want a Camera that I can easily install and operate from Vera ui7 directly or thru the blue iris plugin.  Motion detection would be nice but I suspect that is a reach.  Monitor the house and send me a message if someone is  in the pool area when we are up north.  Worried about furniture walking away or children sneaking in and drowning.


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Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: Hottoy on July 13, 2017, 04:39:04 pm
Very interested in that approach.   The DS-2DE3304W-DE  seems to be on the short list but it's unclear if this integrates with Vera IU7 and if it has night vision.

currently on sale at new-egg cheaper than my discount

https://flash.newegg.com/Product/9SIA9J34552297?nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwordsNF-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwordsNF-PC-_-pla-_-IP+%2f+Network+Cameras-_-9SIA9J34552297&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs6vWuv2G1QIV1EwNCh0pBwVAEAYYAiABEgLvXfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Great deal but I'm still not sure how that camera works without ir leds in the dark.


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Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: integlikewhoa on July 13, 2017, 05:00:01 pm
I want a Camera that I can easily install and operate from Vera ui7 directly or thru the blue iris plugin.  Motion detection would be nice but I suspect that is a reach.  Monitor the house and send me a message if someone is  in the pool area when we are up north.  Worried about furniture walking away or children sneaking in and drowning.

If you running a Blueiris server none of that will be a problem threw blueiris. Vera on the other had doesn't have many perks for video. Even taking video from the camera and passing it threw vera then to you is not ideal but will work. Motion and alerts will come from motion detection in blueiris and send an http out to vera via the plugin or a virtual motion sensor.

Operate in Vera is another issue. Vera has limited commands and options. Watching live is ok, but playing previous recordings all done threw blueiris app. 

Bottomline is when you get a motion notification open the blueiris app to view the cameras.
Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: Hottoy on July 13, 2017, 07:57:35 pm
Thanks for the insight.   I have not set up or tried blue iris with the current foscam cameras on the old system.   
Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: Hottoy on July 19, 2017, 10:13:25 pm
After additional research leaning toward Hikvision DS-2CD2722FWD-IZS or DS-2CD2742FWD-IZS.   Wondering if anyone has any experience with any of these camera's? 

Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: integlikewhoa on July 20, 2017, 12:30:18 am
After additional research leaning toward Hikvision DS-2CD2722FWD-IZS or DS-2CD2742FWD-IZS.   Wondering if anyone has any experience with any of these camera's?

Those definitely not the normally used cameras or popular ones I mean. Those are not PTZ (but I wouldnt recommend a PTZ anyways). It looks like those have a variable lens but thats it over the normal http://www.hikvision.ca/en/Products_accessries_10531_i37637.html or https://www.amazon.com/Hikvision-DS-2CD2142FWD-I-Fixed-Network-2-8mm/dp/B013LR5B9I

Not use if your looking for a mic input wire on them or not.

Also domes are great for vandal resistance in a high traffic area but not so great for night pictures. Having the IR's behind the glass doesn't end up with the best picture and has some glare to it. Not sure if you need a dome but you might want to look into bullet vs. turret vs. dome. Turret about the middle option or best of both worlds vs. the dome and bullet.

I also wouldn;t drop below the 4MP camera picture anymore. I started out with 3's and now only use 4's. I pay around 100.00 each usually for my hikvision's now.
Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: Priest on July 21, 2017, 09:46:32 am
After additional research leaning toward Hikvision DS-2CD2722FWD-IZS or DS-2CD2742FWD-IZS.   Wondering if anyone has any experience with any of these camera's?

I put in 36 of the DS-2CD2742FWD-IZS cameras Wednesday on a customer site.  The thing is, I could have happily put in the DS-2CD2142FWD-IS cameras with a fixed lens instead and had no problem. All the cameras were swung over to the 2.8mm setting for the widest viewing angle.  Someone ordered the more expensive option and it's kind of useless in most cases.  Also, integlikewhoa is correct that those are not PTZ. In the description where they say motorized, that means the zoom and focus can be done remotely, not Pan and Tilt. So it is a Z camera.  The most common use for that is if you have an area you want to see a wide angle on, but one point you might also want to zoom in on that is in the center of the frame. It is not a terribly common camera to be installed in my area either despite the fat that I just installed a whole site full of them.

I like dome cameras over bullets for the aesthetic value and vandal resistance, but they are a compromise. Might I suggest you look through the whole catalog, if you have not already, and see if something else fits a bit better to your needs.

http://oversea-download.hikvision.com/uploadfile/USA/PQG/PQG-Spring_Summer.pdf



Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: Hottoy on August 02, 2017, 09:47:16 pm
Thank you both for the information.  I didn't realize those cameras don't have motorized pan and tilt.  I will have to keep looking for a ptz poe with decent ir night vision.
Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: integlikewhoa on August 03, 2017, 12:27:45 am
Thank you both for the information.  I didn't realize those cameras don't have motorized pan and tilt.  I will have to keep looking for a ptz poe with decent ir night vision.

Do you really need pan and tilt? Do you have cameras now? I find that PTZ are great on paper but don't really work out so well unless you have a viewing station your sitting behind like in a commercial security office. Even then only PTZ that are good are the one that automatically track movement and follow it. Your generally better off putting two wide lens to cover the hole area then one camera that can only see on area at a time.  Usually (like the poster above) you find that a high quality camera with a wide angle lens to cover more area will see enough detail to see whats going on (even if you cant see a zipper down on a subject). If your only used to foscams that might be why you feel you need the zoom to try and get a closer (better) looking picture. You can get two or three (or more) of the regular 4MP hikvision POE cameras (in turrent, bullet or dome) For the price of one 4MP PTZ. You'll cover way more area at any given time with two cameras vs. one PTZ.
Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: Priest on August 03, 2017, 01:55:08 am
Thank you both for the information.  I didn't realize those cameras don't have motorized pan and tilt.  I will have to keep looking for a ptz poe with decent ir night vision.

Do you really need pan and tilt? Do you have cameras now? I find that PTZ are great on paper but don't really work out so well unless you have a viewing station your sitting behind like in a commercial security office. Even then only PTZ that are good are the one that automatically track movement and follow it. Your generally better off putting two wide lens to cover the hole area then one camera that can only see on area at a time.  Usually (like the poster above) you find that a high quality camera with a wide angle lens to cover more area will see enough detail to see whats going on (even if you cant see a zipper down on a subject). If your only used to foscams that might be why you feel you need the zoom to try and get a closer (better) looking picture. You can get two or three (or more) of the regular 4MP hikvision POE cameras (in turrent, bullet or dome) For the price of one 4MP PTZ. You'll cover way more area at any given time with two cameras vs. one PTZ.

Agreed.

The only home use I see for a PTZ is in the few scenarios that are more exception than rule.
1) You work from home and want to track all kinds of stuff going on outside throughout the day...for whatever reason (toy usage)
2) You have a really large open property and you want to set it to automatically scan the property (some novelty, some security)
3) You keep it always set on its widest angle but have an alarm contact set up to automatically zoom to a preset. Say a contact on a gate being tripped pans and zooms to the gate and then returns to wide angle. (actual security use)

Beyond that, there are not a lot of practical uses
Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: integlikewhoa on August 03, 2017, 12:26:42 pm
Beyond that, there are not a lot of practical uses

Either he want's to check for dirt and leafs in the pool or G-strings around the pool, I'm not sure yet. But 400 plus on a camera over the pool is going to complete one or both of those tasks.  ;D

I'll post some pic's of what two current snapshots (it's raining there today) from 3MP Hikvision (DS-2CD2032-I) 4mm wide lens cameras look like. This is also a vacation home located in AZ (snowbird country) It doesn't get rented out and there is 11 total cameras there most are 3MP cameras (4mm lens) with 1-2 new ones now 4MP versions of the same. I only installed bullets due to versatility of install and picture quality. I did install one dome 3MP on front porch with 2.5mm lens. So I do have a bit of variety on styles and lens angles.

Snapshot Files from Blueiris were to big and I didn't want to lower quality to post in the forum. So here is drop box full jpeg size.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y2tdmcbyx12dj4l/Patio.20170803_091249.jpg?dl=0
&
https://www.dropbox.com/s/omfpvs0z6sliucn/Pool.20170803_091301.jpg?dl=0

EDIT: Make sure to zoom in on the image to see the full quality. I think when I open the Dropbox link it's only 30% by default. Also cameras can be scene in each other if you look hard enough on the corner of the buildings. The cameras are probley around 50ft apart or so I would take as a ruff guess off the top of my head. For me it's more then enough detail when zoomed in and these are the widest lens in a bullet and only 3MP vs. the newer 4 or higher MP. 
Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: Priest on August 03, 2017, 01:36:46 pm
In the catalog link I posted previously you can see the view angle for the different lenses. I often use cameras that are 90? or so, but sometimes I'm using one that is wider or narrower.  I go into bluebeam and mark out angles on a floorplan and map out my exact coverage abilities with the different lenses.  I use a few other tools that can tell me the overall intelligibility of an image at a given distance, in certain lighting, specific resolutions, etc.  However, you aren't trying to capture tag numbers of cars in the dark with their tag lights out while driving 70MPH...I don't think you'll have as precise needs as I am required to present.

Buy some 4MP cameras with about 90? of view, slam them in and love it.  You will get plenty of resolution to be able to know what happened and for BlueIris to be able to warn you if someone comes on property.  One you do all that, tie some lights and an Echo Dot to it, pump out a broadcast on a speaker that the person is intruding and the authorities have been notified.... rest easy.
Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: shallowearth on August 03, 2017, 05:22:56 pm
Hey, sorry to hijack here, but any recommendations on a Hikvision front door cam that has to be like 10 feet away in direct profile to the front door (unfortunately my entry way is all stucco and not any good places to mount and power a camera, so am mounting on the garage and pointing in profile to the front door).

Nelly's recommended the NSC-254S-DM mini dome but that seems like their default answer for any front door application but wasn't sure if it was the best for this particular application unless the mic would actually work from that far away and I decide to mount a speaker. But it does have a nice wide angle of view (106 degrees) which is good considering it is in profile it will catch folks walking up as well as at the front door.  We have a porch light that is on the entire time after dark.

I use the NSC-204-BT bullet for drive way and side of property but it has a narrower field at 82.

I am in the northwest so spiders are also a major issue, which has leaned me away from a turret which seem to attract spiders based on how the light is mounted, so maybe the dome is the best option.
Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: integlikewhoa on August 03, 2017, 05:49:36 pm
Hey, sorry to hijack here, but any recommendations on a Hikvision front door cam that has to be like 10 feet away in direct profile to the front door (unfortunately my entry way is all stucco and not any good places to mount and power a camera, so am mounting on the garage and pointing in profile to the front door).

Nelly's recommended the NSC-254S-DM mini dome but that seems like their default answer for any front door application but wasn't sure if it was the best for this particular application unless the mic would actually work from that far away and I decide to mount a speaker. But it does have a nice wide angle of view (106 degrees) which is good considering it is in profile it will catch folks walking up as well as at the front door.  We have a porch light that is on the entire time after dark.

I use the NSC-204-BT bullet for drive way and side of property but it has a narrower field at 82.

I am in the northwest so spiders are also a major issue, which has leaned me away from a turret which seem to attract spiders based on how the light is mounted, so maybe the dome is the best option.

Turrets are supposed to be fairly good with spiders since the IR is to the side of the  camera not in or around the camera like the others. The bullet are the worse due to the way the IR is around the camera and the way its mounted. Domes are very good with spiders due to the camera it's self not really having any place to for webs to hang out. But IR's inside the glass and blocking the IR's seem to have reflections or ghosting and less distance/coverage the IR's reach.

Your problem going to need a narrow view or higher zoom lens if you mounting it farther away from the door. Yes Mic is going to be an issue. My front porch is stucco (the whole house) and I mounted my camera on it. My camera is also more then 10ft from the front door as the porch is more then 10ft long. I would assume yours is much more then 10ft.
Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: Hottoy on August 07, 2017, 06:53:42 pm
The I wanted PTZ for a couple reasons.   
1) My #1 concerns is that the pool guys will not secure the screen door latch and kids might wander in and get hurt or cause trouble when were gone for months.   There is a  single POE drop is and middle of the overhang of a 50 foot wide screened in lanai.  There are doors on each side of the pool about 3 ft off the back of the house.   I don't see how a single camera from the middle of the house overhang that isn't motorized will be able to see both doors
2) My wife doesn't want multiple cameras and the house isn't wired for two

The image quality that you showed is far better than the current Foscam stuff I have been using inside.  Maybe I don't need zoom with that resolution  but still needing PT

I tried to get another POE drop at the back of the screen cage but builder wouldn't do it.  Builders in Southern FL reject anything that is  special.  It took an act of god to get a drop to the center of the overhang.  I probably should have put one in each outer overhang corner instead of the one in the center. 
Title: Re: Need POE, PTZ , Outdoor Dome Camera recommendations to cover pool area
Post by: integlikewhoa on August 07, 2017, 07:23:41 pm
The I wanted PTZ for a couple reasons.   
1) My #1 concerns is that the pool guys will not secure the screen door latch and kids might wander in and get hurt or cause trouble when were gone for months.   There is a  single POE drop is and middle of the overhang of a 50 foot wide screened in lanai.  There are doors on each side of the pool about 3 ft off the back of the house.   I don't see how a single camera from the middle of the house overhang that isn't motorized will be able to see both doors
2) My wife doesn't want multiple cameras and the house isn't wired for two

The image quality that you showed is far better than the current Foscam stuff I have been using inside.  Maybe I don't need zoom with that resolution  but still needing PT

I tried to get another POE drop at the back of the screen cage but builder wouldn't do it.  Builders in Southern FL reject anything that is  special.  It took an act of go to get a drop to the center of the overhang.  I probably sould have put one in each outer overhang corner instead of the one in the center.

I started with foscams and had issues. Hikvision is a good step up you'll be happy with. There is ofcourse better then even the lower end Hik's that I use. I'm using only 4MP on any new installs now but have alot of 3MP like the ones I posted at more then one house. 4MP or not a crazy difference but buy them for almost the same price which is around 100ish each.
If you not using the camera for security you should be ok with a PTZ but your going to pay. Also make sure what ever you end up with has a good ad easy way to return it to a set position. Nothing like masking out areas in Blueiris then moving a camera and none of those masks quiet line up again. Zoom would also be an issue with masks. Something that accepts easy Http commands (or atleast Blueiris can do in the middle) to return to default PTZ and is fairly accurate would be a plus.