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General => Temperature Monitoring & HVAC Control => Topic started by: hadiesper on February 08, 2011, 03:57:52 pm

Title: Water shut off valve
Post by: hadiesper on February 08, 2011, 03:57:52 pm
I know there is a water shut off valve from fortrezz. But is there an equivalent electronic shut off valve that you can open/close using the GC-100 2-24vDC/AC relay contacts?
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: myhomeserver on February 08, 2011, 05:00:49 pm
The FortrezZ is based off of the "watercop" , try looking at that and you may come up with a cheaper version, but I do own a WVA-01 from FortrezZ and it's rock solid and works like a charm. 
Title: Re: Water shut off valve WV-01 setup help
Post by: marcvera on January 31, 2013, 10:27:23 pm
I need some help adding my WV-01 to my veralite.

So far I was able to add it to veralite as -Appliance module with Off and ON but when I send a command it would not open or close.
The only command I was able to send that worked was when the valve is open and I send and on command, it closes the valve. Does the opposite!

Does anyone have a step by step guide to make it work.
I am planning to use the valve to just open and close the main water line thru my cell when I leave home.

Appreciate all the help
Thanks
MZ
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: Matrix on February 02, 2013, 10:01:48 pm
I don't get how you got On Off.  Using Grasshopper on the Windows phone the Water valve doesn't work.  I changed it to On Off on Micasaverde but it then reverted back to the original setting when the reload finished. 

WV-01 is set to Open Close rather than On Off.

This is the original setting
urn:schemas-micasaverde-com:device:Relay:1
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: marcvera on February 02, 2013, 11:11:06 pm
I am sorry, I am not that savvy yet with vera z-wave.
What do you mean by urn:schemas-micasaverde-com:device:Relay:1?
Where should that setting appear?

When I add the valve to veralite it captures it as _appliance module.

Appreciate you trying to help me.
I was succesful though at setting up all my other z-wave products such as dimmers, switches, thermostat, door/window sensors
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: marcvera on February 03, 2013, 09:47:07 pm
Matrix,

Now that I checked advanced settings etc I believe I understand what you mean:

My urn shows: urn:schemas-upnp-org:device:BinaryLight:1
And you said yours shows urn:schemas-micasaverde-com:device:Relay:1

Why do you think it is showing that for me? it thinks that it is just a light.

Were you able to open and close your valve using your controler and cellphone?
My objective with the my fortrezz valve and veralite is to close the valve when I leave and turn back on when I come back using my cell or computer.

Thanks
MZ
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: mramgine on March 17, 2013, 03:18:42 pm
The reason it doesn't work is i haven't implemented the Relay service.  I'll see what i can do in my current code to get it added to the WP8 codebase that i'm trying to get to beta.  I don't always read these forums so just send me an email at: amginecreations@gmail.com.... i check that email daily.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: mramgine on March 17, 2013, 04:17:09 pm
Took a look at the relay device and it looks like what you really are wanting is it to display the switch service that is attached to it. My new implementation should automatically work with any device that has a switch on it.  If you'd like me to verify using your configuration send me your vera configuration

UI2 ? http://<your local Vera IP here>:49451/data_request?output_format=json&id=user_data2
UI3/UI4/UI5 ? http://<your local Vera IP here>:3480/data_request?output_format=json&id=user_data2

If you have any passwords/pin codes, please mask them in the output without altering the overall format of the file before sending it over.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: marcvera on March 17, 2013, 07:44:37 pm
Thanks for trying the help.
Micasaverde tech support along with Fortrezz worked together for 2 weeks and figured it and it has been working well for a few weeks now
I can open and close the valve like an on off switch thru my cell or computer.
I also have a couple of leak detectors that work well with the valve.

Kudos to Stella from Fortrezz and Daniel Stephen from micasaverde
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: johnnyv on May 03, 2013, 09:24:28 pm
Marcvera,

What was the resolution, I'm experiencing the exact same issue..  can only close the valve (ON) from Vera, can NOT re-open (off) once its closed  (from vera)...

I'll keep digging around.  but if you or anyone else, have the answer,  it would be appreciated.

thanks..
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: johnnyv on May 03, 2013, 09:57:24 pm
found it!!!

it's in the WV-01 Instructions:

This means you have the valve installed in water alarm mode, which will not allow the valve to open with the same basic set command. This is a security feature set so that a water sensor detecting a leak doesn't continually open and close the valve (as the command the sensor sends is the same for open or close). The zwave gateway should be sending a smart command and not a basic set.

One way you can get around this is to set the water valve up in water level mode (irrigation mode). This way, the same basic set command will open or close the valve. Instructions on this and explanation can be found in the user manual on page 6.
To switch between water alarm mode and water level mode prior to inclusion in the network, do the following:
i. Hold the program button down for 1 or more seconds
ii. While still holding the program button, press the open button (for water level mode) or the close button (for water alarm mode)

Note: This button press sequence is not available after network inclusion. See page 7 for configuration change after network inclusion.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: johnnyv on May 05, 2013, 11:17:24 am
well, i found the issue in the instructions,  but have yet been unable to resolve it..  tried multiple times and variations of excluding and re- including in water level mode, no success...

anybody have the required steps to resolve this?
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: bd8134 on July 21, 2013, 06:54:52 pm
I am trying to setup a WV-01 Fortrezz water valve I just purchased.
When adding it to Vera 3 with U15 it sees it as urn:schemas-upnp-org:device:BinaryLight:1 in Advanced.
I am unable to trigger the valve via on the on off buttons on device (the WV-01 is setup in Water Alarm Mode) and also when I created a scene.

It also has a water sensor incorporated into the water valve, is this monitored also?
With the water valve thinking it is a light switch, it only shows options for the valve itself.

What should this valve be seen as?

Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: Da_JoJo on July 21, 2013, 07:58:08 pm
try to change in advanced tab the urn:schemas-upnp-org:device:BinaryLight:1 to urn:schemas-micasaverde-com:device:Relay:1    and the D_BinaryLight1.xml to D_Relay1.xml
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: bd8134 on July 21, 2013, 09:34:01 pm
I changed those settings as you recommended  Da_JoJo in the Advanced tab and saving.
I did not see any difference in operation.
I am still unable to control the valve from the U15 web.
It shows Open and Close now, I thought it said off and on before.
The scheme does not close the valve.
It still shows up as a device under Lights in devices.

I also saw the valve as a light switch previously in the Apple app.
I no longer see it now.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: Da_JoJo on July 21, 2013, 09:52:11 pm
Quote
found it!!!

it's in the WV-01 Instructions:

This means you have the valve installed in water alarm mode, which will not allow the valve to open with the same basic set command. This is a security feature set so that a water sensor detecting a leak doesn't continually open and close the valve (as the command the sensor sends is the same for open or close). The zwave gateway should be sending a smart command and not a basic set.

One way you can get around this is to set the water valve up in water level mode (irrigation mode). This way, the same basic set command will open or close the valve. Instructions on this and explanation can be found in the user manual on page 6.
To switch between water alarm mode and water level mode prior to inclusion in the network, do the following:
i. Hold the program button down for 1 or more seconds
ii. While still holding the program button, press the open button (for water level mode) or the close button (for water alarm mode)

Note: This button press sequence is not available after network inclusion. See page 7 for configuration change after network inclusion.

this was mentioned to make it work
the relay is probably not implemented in the apple app u have.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: bd8134 on July 21, 2013, 10:07:56 pm
I actually just tried it again and it works.
Using the Run in schedule closed the valve and also making the contacts wet on a Fortezz water sensor worked.
So thank you for that.

One other item I hope you can help me with.
It shows the status correctly when the valve closes.
However when the sensor detects no water Vera seems to try to Open the valve, which fails, I believe because of the mode I have the valve set to.
I do not want Vera to try open the valve, I will open the valve when I have checked for no water.
How can set this?
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: Da_JoJo on July 21, 2013, 10:22:16 pm
a trigger for water sensor and set to sensor non-tripped and in the same scene press the open valve button on the valve device will make it auto-open the valve when no water is detected by the watersensor. i have no such devices so i dont know what it does in vera. dont know if this is what you want either as it will leave the valve open as long as the watersensor is not tripped. i would set it for watersensor tripped and close valve.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: bd8134 on July 21, 2013, 10:31:50 pm
I have just the one scene set.
Water detected close the water valve.

It seems if the alarm trips the water valve closes, when the sensor detects no water, Vera tries to open the valve.
I do not want Vera to try to open valve.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: Da_JoJo on July 22, 2013, 07:38:15 am
then most probably you have set it somewhere to do that. pls check ur triggers/scenes
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: bd8134 on July 22, 2013, 08:44:35 am
I only have the one scene set which is to turn off the valve when water is detected.
Do I need to set another scene when I get a "no leak detected" signal.
This is what the Fortezz WWA-02AA (which I am using) sends when water is no longer detected after it detected water?
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: Da_JoJo on July 22, 2013, 08:53:02 am
if the water is detected by floodsensor and the valve turned off, it would need a triggered scene to turn it on again when there is no water anymore. 
depends on what you want to accomplish here. vera wont automaticly turn it back on when you did not tell it to do so. you just told me vera tries to open the valve and you do not want this and now you tell me you do want it lol
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: bd8134 on July 22, 2013, 09:18:59 am
I want the water valve to turn off when water is detected and stay off.
I will turn the water valve back on manually when I have checked that water is no longer present.
I do not want Vera to turn the valve back to on and this is what is happening.
How do I stop Vera trying to turn the water valve back on?
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: Da_JoJo on July 22, 2013, 09:22:21 am
my guess is that somehow you have the scene for it not configured correctly. vera does only do things when stuff in the scene is met the conditions it was given.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: Da_JoJo on July 22, 2013, 10:24:47 am
for example : you make a scene so that it would set 2 lights , light1 on 50% and light2 on 60%. when you press the run scene button it would set the 2 lights, 1 to 50% and 2 to 60%
but whenever you set the light1 to 50% and light2 to 60% manually by yourselfs, it would set the scene you made to active and thus so do the actions you put in that scene. its bit strange but that is how the vera works.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: tvipond on August 15, 2013, 11:09:42 pm
Okay, I've read the comments here and had thought I'd found the answer to my problem. First, I was having the same problem...I could close the valve but could not nre-open it. I was definitely in water alarm mode. I tried changing the urn and device type to relay as explained. The relay device now is active and it says open and close as opposed to on and off. Same effect, I can close but not re-open the valve. I then deleted the device, removed it from my z-wave network. I then followed the instructions to change the mode if the valve. While not included, press and hold the mode button for 1+ seconds then press open. This then gives me 3 quick flashes indication it us in water level mode and not water alarm mode. Then I included it into my zwave network again ang it again gets installed as an appliance module with on and off as options. Once again I can not re-open the valve. I tried one more time to change the device to a relay and till no luck.

Anybody know what I am missing?
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: tvipond on August 15, 2013, 11:13:27 pm
After re-reading my message, it is apparent I am missing a spell checker!  Sorry!
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: bd8134 on August 28, 2013, 09:40:28 pm
I have been working with micasaverda support and my Fortrezz water valve is now working well with 5 Fortrezz water sensors, siren, in water alarm mode.
It is hooked up to the water supply in my house and closes the valve when water is detected by the valve probe or the water sensors and sounds the siren / light.
Support found my valve was setup in water level mode which stops the wired probe from working when included with the Vera.



Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: bd8134 on August 28, 2013, 10:10:53 pm
Okay, I've read the comments here and had thought I'd found the answer to my problem. First, I was having the same problem...I could close the valve but could not nre-open it. I was definitely in water alarm mode. I tried changing the urn and device type to relay as explained. The relay device now is active and it says open and close as opposed to on and off. Same effect, I can close but not re-open the valve. I then deleted the device, removed it from my z-wave network. I then followed the instructions to change the mode if the valve. While not included, press and hold the mode button for 1+ seconds then press open. This then gives me 3 quick flashes indication it us in water level mode and not water alarm mode. Then I included it into my zwave network again ang it again gets installed as an appliance module with on and off as options. Once again I can not re-open the valve. I tried one more time to change the device to a relay and till no luck.

Anybody know what I am missing?
I am not sure but I may have been in water level mode all the time, but I was never able to remotely open the valve.
You can check from Vera I believe what mode the valve is running in...
Go to Device Options from your Vera water valve device.
Click 'Add configuration settings', enter 0 - monitor only - 0.
Hit the X to close the device settings box and save the settings to load it.
Go back into the device, Device Options, and read what value the valve has returned.
If the value is 255 it is running in water level mode, 0 it is running water alarm.
You can also change the valves mode from this screen also..
'Add configuration setting', 0 - 1 byte hex - "0 or FF"
Also read the Fortrezz water valve documentation, page 6 in mine,
".... but will also open when receiving a Basic Set Command after a pre-configured delay (default=60 minutes)"
Maybe the delay is causing you not to open the valve.
Have you tried after 60 minutes?
You can also change this value to another value in device options like above.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: tvipond on September 06, 2013, 02:29:56 pm
Bd, thanks for the further help...I will try some of the things you suggested.

 I believe the valve is in level mode since my previous efforts. The probes used to close the valve but since my change of modes at the valve itself, the probes no longer respond...which is good because I don't need them to do anything. Maybe Vera doesn't think it's in that mode, even though I deleted the device and re-included it, so being able to confirm Vera's knowledge of the mode will be helpful.

You mentioned that you can change the mode from Vera. Does this actually change the mode of the valve or does it only change the mode and method that Vera uses to control and communicate with the valve?

Terry
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: bd8134 on September 06, 2013, 06:12:37 pm
I believe it would change the mode of the water valve itself. In the Fortezz manual it does say they support changing the mode with the correct commands.
I could not say for sure though.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: tvipond on September 07, 2013, 12:46:43 am
Thank so much...it's fixed thanks to you. Actually it wasn't broken...dumb me just wasn't waiting the 60 minutes and I guess I need to RTFM better. I managed to change the 60 minute setting lower to try it out. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: Da_JoJo on September 08, 2013, 12:41:43 am
good thing its solved. i dont have a manual to RTFM so i didnt know about the 60 minute thing :-).
figured it makes more sense that it has open/close oppose to on/off and being a light which it isnt.
but as it has no implementation in mobile apps its probably more convinient that it is a light switch.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: hotwater9 on November 19, 2013, 07:53:54 am

I am not sure but I may have been in water level mode all the time, but I was never able to remotely open the valve.
You can check from Vera I believe what mode the valve is running in...
Go to Device Options from your Vera water valve device.
Click 'Add configuration settings', enter 0 - monitor only - 0.
Hit the X to close the device settings box and save the settings to load it.
Go back into the device, Device Options, and read what value the valve has returned.
If the value is 255 it is running in water level mode, 0 it is running water alarm.
You can also change the valves mode from this screen also..
'Add configuration setting', 0 - 1 byte hex - "0 or FF"
Also read the Fortrezz water valve documentation, page 6 in mine,
".... but will also open when receiving a Basic Set Command after a pre-configured delay (default=60 minutes)"
Maybe the delay is causing you not to open the valve.
Have you tried after 60 minutes?
You can also change this value to another value in device options like above.

I am not following these instructions. When done, should I have two configurations? I changed urn:schemas-upnp-org:device:BinaryLight:1 to urn:schemas-micasaverde-com:device:Relay:1 and the D_BinaryLight1.xml to D_Relay1.xmll in the advanced tab and the device is now setup as a relay and displaying "Open" and "close" like I want. I am still only able to open the valve with Vera, I have tried setting the Variable to "0", Data size to "1 byte hex" and desired vale to "0" and to "FF" but have had no luck. I know I am in the wrong mode because the valve will close when the local sensor detects water.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: bd8134 on November 19, 2013, 09:06:26 am
"I am not following these instructions."
I am not sure what you are trying to do, new valve, what mode do you want to use it in?

"When done, should I have two configurations?" 
No. It is the same valve but you can operate it in different ways.

"I have the type set to urn:schemas-micasaverde-com:device:Relay:1 with D_Relay1.xml and I have tried setting the Variable to "0", Data size to "1 byte hex" and desired vale to "0" and to "FF" but have had no luck."
Same settings as mine. No luck at what?
After you have set the value do you see if the valve had accepted the change?

"I want the valve to say "open" and "closed"."
Mine says Open and Closed with the symbol of a lamp.
Maybe a different version of Vera?
Does the valve open or close?
What does device show up as, does it say on and off?

Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: hotwater9 on November 19, 2013, 09:12:15 am
bd8134 - Thanks for the reply. Sorry if I was not clear or if I modified my above post while you were replying. I want to be able to open and close the valev with vera. It is my understanding that I need to be in "Water Level Mode" mode to do this. Is this correct?

Other than being able to open the valve in vera (I can close it) everything is working and displaying like I want.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: bd8134 on November 19, 2013, 09:32:11 am
Ah ok. :)
You need to verify what mode you are running in first.
Follow these instructions. You need to be in water level mode and the wired probe on the valve will not work.

You can check from Vera I believe what mode the valve is running in...
Go to Device Options from your Vera water valve device.
Click 'Add configuration settings', enter 0 - monitor only - 0.
Hit the X to close the device settings box and save the settings to load it.
Go back into the device, Device Options, and read what value the valve has returned.
If the value is 255 it is running in water level mode, 0 it is running water alarm.
You can also change the valves mode from this screen also..
'Add configuration setting', 0 - 1 byte hex - "0 or FF"
Also read the Fortrezz water valve documentation, page 6 in mine,
".... but will also open when receiving a Basic Set Command after a pre-configured delay (default=60 minutes)"
Maybe the delay is causing you not to open the valve.
Have you tried after 60 minutes?
You can also change this value to another value in device options like above.

The device default is 60 minutes until you can open the valve over zwave, the switch on the valve will still work.
Tvipond in this thread wanted the same mode as yourself and he was able to change to a value less than 60 minutes.
I wanted water alarm mode so I have not tried that setting.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: hotwater9 on November 19, 2013, 07:28:41 pm
When I go to Device options -> add configuration settings, I can enter the vraiable "0" and select "monitor only" but am unable to enter anything in the desired value field.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: bucko on November 19, 2013, 08:16:31 pm
I'm reading this thread and sorry to learn after you all shell out $500 for a "Z-Wave" water valve, and you have all this programming trouble. For the price of that valve, it should be doing your dishes!

FYI, here is a bullet proof, under $100, solution that works. You need a security panel that talks to Vera, a KLD20S-B5 valve, and GRI-2600 water sensor. I have an Elk M1 panel, but any will do.

The GRI-2600 becomes a security zone. Use  2 relays from your panel to open or close the valve. Wire it all up, write a few PLEG rules or just make a few scenes, and you got full manual/auto control of your water main.

I actually use my Elk to control the valve via Elk rules. Vera sends me prowl alerts of conditions, and I use Homewave to work my valve manually of need be.

Been working 1+ year now like a charm.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: bd8134 on November 19, 2013, 09:10:52 pm
When I go to Device options -> add configuration settings, I can enter the vraiable "0" and select "monitor only" but am unable to enter anything in the desired value field.
"monitor only" is just to query the valve to see if it is in water valve or alarm mode, it is not for changing it, you cannot enter anything.
Hit the X to close the device settings box and save the settings to load it.
Go back into the device, Device Options, and read what value the valve has returned.
If the value is 255 it is running in water level mode, 0 it is running water alarm.

To change mode, 'Add configuration setting', Variable - 0, Data size - 1 byte hex,  Desired Value - "0 or FF"

A quick way to see if the valve is in alarm or level mode..
If the valve is included into Vera, make the hard wired probe tips wet, if the valve operates it is alarm mode.
The valve will not do anything if it is included and running in level mode.
If the valve is not included into Vera and you make the wired tips wet, it should operate the valve.

Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: hotwater9 on November 19, 2013, 11:10:12 pm
I'm reading this thread and sorry to learn after you all shell out $500 for a "Z-Wave" water valve, and you have all this programming trouble. For the price of that valve, it should be doing your dishes!

FYI, here is a bullet proof, under $100, solution that works. You need a security panel that talks to Vera, a KLD20S-B5 valve, and GRI-2600 water sensor. I have an Elk M1 panel, but any will do.

The GRI-2600 becomes a security zone. Use  2 relays from your panel to open or close the valve. Wire it all up, write a few PLEG rules or just make a few scenes, and you got full manual/auto control of your water main.

I actually use my Elk to control the valve via Elk rules. Vera sends me prowl alerts of conditions, and I use Homewave to work my valve manually of need be.

Been working 1+ year now like a charm.
This might help others but the hardware has already been purchased and installed. The valve is was less than $400 and I am sure I will get it figured out. Setup might give me some troubles but I have really only invested less than an hour in troubleshooting.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: hotwater9 on November 19, 2013, 11:30:56 pm
When I go to Device options -> add configuration settings, I can enter the vraiable "0" and select "monitor only" but am unable to enter anything in the desired value field.
"monitor only" is just to query the valve to see if it is in water valve or alarm mode, it is not for changing it, you cannot enter anything.
Hit the X to close the device settings box and save the settings to load it.
Go back into the device, Device Options, and read what value the valve has returned.
If the value is 255 it is running in water level mode, 0 it is running water alarm.

To change mode, 'Add configuration setting', Variable - 0, Data size - 1 byte hex,  Desired Value - "0 or FF"

A quick way to see if the valve is in alarm or level mode..
If the valve is included into Vera, make the hard wired probe tips wet, if the valve operates it is alarm mode.
The valve will not do anything if it is included and running in level mode.
If the valve is not included into Vera and you make the wired tips wet, it should operate the valve.

bd8134 - Thanks. It returned a value of "0". I then went in and changed the desired value to "FF" and it appears to be working as desired and lists the current value as 255.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: bd8134 on November 20, 2013, 10:13:05 am
When I go to Device options -> add configuration settings, I can enter the vraiable "0" and select "monitor only" but am unable to enter anything in the desired value field.
"monitor only" is just to query the valve to see if it is in water valve or alarm mode, it is not for changing it, you cannot enter anything.
Hit the X to close the device settings box and save the settings to load it.
Go back into the device, Device Options, and read what value the valve has returned.
If the value is 255 it is running in water level mode, 0 it is running water alarm.

To change mode, 'Add configuration setting', Variable - 0, Data size - 1 byte hex,  Desired Value - "0 or FF"

A quick way to see if the valve is in alarm or level mode..
If the valve is included into Vera, make the hard wired probe tips wet, if the valve operates it is alarm mode.
The valve will not do anything if it is included and running in level mode.
If the valve is not included into Vera and you make the wired tips wet, it should operate the valve.

bd8134 - Thanks. It returned a value of "0". I then went in and changed the desired value to "FF" and it appears to be working as desired and lists the current value as 255.
Great to hear you got it working.
I presume you changed the default time value so you do not have wait for 60 minutes before opening the valve.
I leave those 2 'lines' in Device Options, the monitor and the variable, it does not seem to harm anything or stop it from working.
Your fish should have a good time now.. :D
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: hotwater9 on November 20, 2013, 09:57:24 pm
Well it looks like I spoke too soon. I never really fully verified everything until today. The local sensor does not trigger the valve (this is not desired but is the expected behavior for the mode I am operating in, I can close the valve but when I trigger it vera gives a message that "node reports it's busy Transmit was ok" this message goes away afte a minute or so. When I try and reopen the valve I get the same message and then the stastus changes to open but the valve does not actually open?

I have "Poll this node at most once every" set to 5 and the device set up as a relay. Under device options I have Variable 0, 1 byte hex, desired value FF, current value FF. Any more ideas on what might be wrong?
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: bd8134 on November 20, 2013, 11:00:29 pm
The hard wired / local sensor does not work when the valve is running in level mode and included.
It is also in the manual.
It does not look like you have changed the default time value, it is 60 minutes.
You will not be able to use Vera to open the valve until this time has expired when in water level mode.
This is also in the manual.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: jonstrasser on July 02, 2015, 09:28:16 pm
Hi
I'm trying to setup my Fortrezz valve -
I changed the device type and device file to what's posted above.....but then I get no switches.    I changed it back and now I just have on/off - when set up as binary light, etc.   Is there a typo above?
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: bd8134 on July 02, 2015, 11:05:37 pm
Post some pictures of what you are seeing and post the exact steps you are taking.
What model and version of Vera are you using?
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: jonstrasser on July 03, 2015, 10:45:22 am
There's a typo in the earlier post that says xmll.    Once corrected, it works as open/close - but still displays a light bulb in UI5 - is that correct?
Also, is there an easy way to set the timeout period to less than 60 minutes?  The manual says Parameter 1 - water level timeout - size:2 bytes, configuration value 1=0x0000 to 0x7FFF (0-32,767 minutes).   
To do that, would I set config settings to:
config variable:1    2 byte hex     3       - to get it to allow reopening after 3 minutes?
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: jonstrasser on July 03, 2015, 11:38:42 am
meant 2 bytes dec - not hex in above post?
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: rafale77 on July 04, 2015, 01:39:44 pm
New interesting product:

http://www.econetcontrols.com/EBV-105-water-shutoff.php
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: BloatedToad on July 14, 2015, 07:45:56 am
an attractive price point as well
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: rafale77 on July 14, 2015, 11:41:37 am
Yeah got one installed on a drip irrigation system. It works well. A bit of work to install if your ball valve does not have a standard collar sizing but, I figured it out.
The biggest advantage of this is that you don't need to worry about not being able to turn the valve on or off in case of power outage: There is a bypass. It can also be on and off for a long time since it does not consume power after the valve is rotated unlike a solenoid.
A solenoid with a relay may have been a lot cheaper but would require to break the line... a bit more plumbing work. With this, I stayed dry.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: NickTheGreat on July 14, 2015, 11:58:39 am
an attractive price point as well

No kidding.  I just saw the price of the WV-01 and about died!  >:(
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: rafale77 on July 14, 2015, 01:11:08 pm
Indeed, no justification for such a price. You can DIYa solenoid with:

solenoid valve off of ebay $15-$30 depending on size. You get to pick between normally open and closed and how to power it. If you go 110V AC, you don't need a transformer
A z-wave relay (Monoprice for $25 this week).
Miscellaneous wiring and power plug for $5

Total would be $65 tops.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on July 14, 2015, 04:16:56 pm
But then it uses power to keep the valve open.
This only uses power to change state.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: rafale77 on July 14, 2015, 04:36:12 pm
Yes as I explained above.
The options are:

DIY solenoid ~$65
The econet actuater $125
The Fortezz WV-01 ~$3-400

I was comparing the DIY solenoid with the WV01 went talking about pricing. I myself went with the econet which indeed has the advantage of still being able to turn on and off during power failure and also not having to do any plumbing work.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: capjay on July 14, 2015, 09:52:03 pm
I myself went with the econet which indeed has the advantage of still being able to turn on and off during power failure and also not having to do any plumbing work.

Interesting. I assume the econet works fine with Vera. BTW, the WV-01 has a knob that can be opened/closed manually if power goes out.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: rafale77 on July 15, 2015, 10:03:58 am
Yes it is a generic on/off switch.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: hellovn on December 12, 2015, 03:28:26 pm
After doing some analysis, i think i will buy a Fortrezz one instead of a diy solution or econet. I have a 1000$ a year budget for my fancy home automation. This valve will eat into 80% of my budget :(.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: rafale77 on December 13, 2015, 02:05:07 am
After doing some analysis, i think i will buy a Fortrezz one instead of a diy solution or econet. I have a 1000$ a year budget for my fancy home automation. This valve will eat into 80% of my budget :(.

Why? What analysis?
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: hellovn on December 29, 2015, 07:03:31 pm
The econet one sometimes does not open or close the valve completely. If there is a flood in my house, it would be a disaster. The DIY products do not report the value properly to vera :(. Anyway, the Fortrezz valve is just a peace of mind :)
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: integlikewhoa on December 29, 2015, 07:46:18 pm
The econet one sometimes does not open or close the valve completely. If there is a flood in my house, it would be a disaster. The DIY products do not report the value properly to vera :(. Anyway, the Fortrezz valve is just a peace of mind :)

The DIY can report value just as good as any other device as long as you get the right one.

Search amazon, ebay, google for "CR05 Ball Valve" and you will find a 5 wire ball valve that along with say a mimolite or your choice of z-wave relay and sensor. Maybe for 75-100 you can have same or better as a 300.00 fortrezz wv-01. 
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: jackbenimble333 on October 12, 2016, 03:00:29 pm
I just thought I would post my experience with a VeraPlus.

I have had a Fortrezz Water Valve paired with a Vera2 on UI4 for two years now.  It worked perfectly in "Water Alarm Mode".  Vera2 could close the valve either by pushing the device button or by a triggered scene from one of numerous Fortrezz water detectors I have spread around the house.  Because I was in Water Alarm Mode, I could not re-open the device with either the "On" or the "Off" button (Vera thought it was an appliance module).

I recently upgraded the Vera2 to a VeraPlus.  I had no difficulty unpairing from the old and re-pairing the device to the new controller.  VeraPlus quickly recognized the device as a Water Valve and gave me an "Open" and "Close" button.  Both buttons work in that I could open and close the valve by pressing them.  I had not expected the open button to work but it does.  This made me think that I had somehow put the device into "Water Level Mode" which is not what I wanted.

I did a couple of tests:

1.  I followed these instructions and it returned "0" which means Water Alarm Mode
Go to Device Options from your Vera water valve device.
Click 'Add configuration settings', enter 0 - monitor only - blank.
Hit the X to close the device settings box and save the settings to load it.
Go back into the device, Device Options, and read what value the valve has returned.
If the value is 255 it is running in water level mode, 0 it is running water alarm.

2.  I put a wet paper towel across the sensor nodes of the attached sensor wire.  It closed the valve.  It is my understanding that this sensor is disabled in "Water Level Mode" and enabled in "Water Alarm Mode" so I believe this confirmed that I am in Water Alarm Mode.

So, now with the VeraPlus I seem to have the best of both worlds.  I can toggle the valve open and closed at will with Vera.  And it works in Water Alarm Mode.  Nice! 
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: integlikewhoa on October 13, 2016, 12:10:28 pm
I just thought I would post my experience with a VeraPlus.

I have had a Fortrezz Water Valve paired with a Vera2 on UI4 for two years now.  It worked perfectly in "Water Alarm Mode".  Vera2 could close the valve either by pushing the device button or by a triggered scene from one of numerous Fortrezz water detectors I have spread around the house.  Because I was in Water Alarm Mode, I could not re-open the device with either the "On" or the "Off" button (Vera thought it was an appliance module).

I recently upgraded the Vera2 to a VeraPlus.  I had no difficulty unpairing from the old and re-pairing the device to the new controller.  VeraPlus quickly recognized the device as a Water Valve and gave me an "Open" and "Close" button.  Both buttons work in that I could open and close the valve by pressing them.  I had not expected the open button to work but it does.  This made me think that I had somehow put the device into "Water Level Mode" which is not what I wanted.

I did a couple of tests:

1.  I followed these instructions and it returned "0" which means Water Alarm Mode
Go to Device Options from your Vera water valve device.
Click 'Add configuration settings', enter 0 - monitor only - blank.
Hit the X to close the device settings box and save the settings to load it.
Go back into the device, Device Options, and read what value the valve has returned.
If the value is 255 it is running in water level mode, 0 it is running water alarm.

2.  I put a wet paper towel across the sensor nodes of the attached sensor wire.  It closed the valve.  It is my understanding that this sensor is disabled in "Water Level Mode" and enabled in "Water Alarm Mode" so I believe this confirmed that I am in Water Alarm Mode.

So, now with the VeraPlus I seem to have the best of both worlds.  I can toggle the valve open and closed at will with Vera.  And it works in Water Alarm Mode.  Nice!

I think you just found out how your valve has always worked which is normal.

Both modes use a sensor to close the valve (could be a leak sensor or level sensor) just like you tested. The difference is in "water level mode" after the sensor untrips the valve automatically opens backup to start flowing water again. In water alarm mode the valve will stay closed until you press the button to open it back up (saying you checked and there is no leak were good to turn water back on).

You should be in Alarm mode for your application and water level mode is made for say filling your pool or something like that. When the level comes up and contacts the water pins the valve closes and no more water is flowing. Soon as the pool level goes down and no water is contacting the pins the valve automatically opens and starts flowing water again.

If your in the correct mode (Alarm Mode) your test would be to put the wet paper towel or dip the sensor probe in water (valve should close) then remove the probe and water valve should stay closed until you tell vera to open it or press the button on the valve to open it.

All of this is based that you have the probe directly "Associated" or linked to the valve and not to vera. If you have many sensors and they are all linked to vera (maybe not only water sensors) you can use vera's logic to do the same as above or more based on your own scene.

Also the new kid on the block with a cheaper price tag and Z-wave Plus is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XusTeefhPh8
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: jswim788 on October 13, 2016, 12:54:49 pm
That's an interesting valve from Homeseer, but there are very few specifications on the web page.  No information on whether it is lead free or its temperature range.

I went in the more expensive direction with this valve from Valworx:  http://www.valworx.com/product/electric-actuated-lead-free-brass-ball-valve-34-120-vac

It has full specifications, has an internal heater to eliminate condensation, and works over a wide temperature range (important under my house where freezing temperatures are possible).  It is not Zwave enabled, but I can add Zwave switch to control it.  It has dry contacts to indicate close and open which can be connected to a sensor.  Definitely more expensive, but for me the clear specs made me more confident in using it for the water main.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: integlikewhoa on October 13, 2016, 01:40:25 pm
That's an interesting valve from Homeseer, but there are very few specifications on the web page.  No information on whether it is lead free or its temperature range.

It's stainless steel so there no info of "lead free" like brass valves have. 

The temp info is in the manual "Operating Temp Range 5?C to 80?C".
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1248/3803/files/HS-WV100-Manual.pdf?14510621178035640250

I would think freezing would be a problem for any valve as then it would be an ice valve not a water valve.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: jackbenimble333 on October 14, 2016, 12:48:41 pm

I think you just found out how your valve has always worked which is normal.

Both modes use a sensor to close the valve (could be a leak sensor or level sensor) just like you tested. The difference is in "water level mode" after the sensor untrips the valve automatically opens backup to start flowing water again. In water alarm mode the valve will stay closed until you press the button to open it back up (saying you checked and there is no leak were good to turn water back on).


I don't think so.  Take a look at Reply No 10 on Page 1 of this thread.  That is how my valve used to work when I was on Vera2/UI4 and how the Valve Manual documentation says it is SUPPOSED to work when you are in flood mode.  You could close the valve with Vera but not re-open it.  To re-open it you had to physically go to the water valve and push the green button (after checking for leaks).  It was a safety feature that prevented the valve from being reactivated before checking for leaks.

Now it is working differently with VeraPlus/UI7.  I can close and open valve with the Vera.  It displays some "Device Busy" messages but the valve operates both directions.   I have verified that I am in flood mode by the two tests I described above in my previous post and now also with the test you described.  The Valve does not reopen when water is removed from the flood sensor that is directly hard wired to the valve.  It would open if I was in Water Level Mode and it does not so I am certain it is correctly in flood mode.

I lost a home and 40 cubic yards of my favorite possessions to a flood/mold event about 3 years ago.  Insurance covered about $150k and about $150k came out of my own pocket (insurance does not cover mold).  I won't bore you with my long story of woe but part of that $150k was the Fortrezz Valve and a whole slew of Fortrezz Flood/Freeze Alarms.  I am meticulous about water now.  If I leave my house even overnight I manually turn off the main water valve immediately below the Fortrezz Valve in my basement and if I am going to be gone more than 3 nights I also turn the water off at the city curb stop about 100 feet from my house.  The Fortrezz's job is just to protect the house when I am home asleep, working outside or away from home for a few hours to work or shop.

I personally would NEVER write a scene that automatically opened the valve.  But it is easy for me to imagine someone else who has not had my sad experience writing a Home to Vacation Mode scene which turned off the valve and a Vacation to Home Mode which automatically turned it back on.  Now suppose there had been a freeze event which caused a pipe to burst and had triggered a water sensor to close the valve (again).  There is quite a bit of water is in the plumbing even with the main valve off; my kitchen sink will run for more than a minute. So lets suppose that the same water which triggered that event also ruined the flood detector as those electronics are not very robust.  Now when that valve opens automatically the flood resumes and there is no working sensor to turn it off again.

I can live with how the valve is now but I think it was a better safety device when it worked the way it was designed.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: integlikewhoa on October 14, 2016, 02:20:30 pm

I think you just found out how your valve has always worked which is normal.

Both modes use a sensor to close the valve (could be a leak sensor or level sensor) just like you tested. The difference is in "water level mode" after the sensor untrips the valve automatically opens backup to start flowing water again. In water alarm mode the valve will stay closed until you press the button to open it back up (saying you checked and there is no leak were good to turn water back on).


I don't think so.  Take a look at Reply No 10 on Page 1 of this thread.  That is how my valve used to work when I was on Vera2/UI4 and how the Valve Manual documentation says it is SUPPOSED to work when you are in flood mode.  You could close the valve with Vera but not re-open it.  To re-open it you had to physically go to the water valve and push the green button (after checking for leaks).  It was a safety feature that prevented the valve from being reactivated before checking for leaks.

I can live with how the valve is now but I think it was a better safety device when it worked the way it was designed.

Fortrezz has always answered my calls right away. I would call them and verify. Even if they say that's how it's supposed to be, you can your own scene to keep it closed until you manually override it. But I think if the valve closed and sent you an alarm, judging by what you described you wouldn't manually open it anyways (and It's not going to auto open as you have tested). So I don't see the big idea except to figure out what Fortrezz had in mind. The best way to go about that is to pickup the phone and ask Fortrezz.

EDIT: I just called them and asked for you. They said it is not supposed to open from Vera for the first 60 min. After 60min the lockout is removed and then you should be able to open it from vera. If it opens in less then 60min (which I assume it does based on your testing) then they said to contact VERA and have them fix it on their side.

Fortrezz
AUBURN HILLS CENTRE INDUSTRIAL PARK
1080 Centre Drive, SUITE C
Auburn Hills, Michigan 48326
(248) 481-7092
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: jackbenimble333 on October 14, 2016, 02:52:55 pm

EDIT: I just called them and asked for you. They said it is not supposed to open from Vera for the first 60 min. After 60min the lockout is removed and then you should be able to open it from vera. If it opens in less then 60min (which I assume it does based on your testing) then they said to contact VERA and have them fix it on their side.


Thanks for making that call!   That was really nice and above and beyond the call!

Mine will definitely open from Vera after it has been closed.  The device on Vera the Vera Interface has a red message that says "Sorry the Node is busy please try ."  The message persists for a long time but eventually disappears. But I can open and close and open and close the valve repeatedly despite that message and the handle on the valve physically turns and the water goes on and off. 

For now I am not going to bother with having VERA try to fix it.  It is not that huge a problem for me as I will never automate a scene to open the valve.  I mainly posted to the thread above because I thought other people might be interested in the new behavior of the valve under VeraPlus/UI7 Firmware: 1.7.2138.

I can't figure out how to write a scene that would keep the valve closed and effectively disable the open button.  I guess I could write a PLEG scene that would persistently re-close it if some other scene tried to open it perhaps based on the value of a virtual switch set by my Flood Alarm Scene.  I am a newbie to PLEG but I will give that some thought.

Thanks again!

Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: integlikewhoa on October 14, 2016, 03:04:49 pm

EDIT: I just called them and asked for you. They said it is not supposed to open from Vera for the first 60 min. After 60min the lockout is removed and then you should be able to open it from vera. If it opens in less then 60min (which I assume it does based on your testing) then they said to contact VERA and have them fix it on their side.


Thanks for making that call!   That was really nice and above and beyond the call!

Mine will definitely open from Vera after it has been closed.  The device on Vera the Vera Interface has a red message that says "Sorry the Node is busy please try ."  The message persists for a long time but eventually disappears. But I can open and close and open and close the valve repeatedly despite that message and the handle on the valve physically turns and the water goes on and off. 

For now I am not going to bother with having VERA try to fix it.  It is not that huge a problem for me as I will never automate a scene to open the valve.  I mainly posted to the thread above because I thought other people might be interested in the new behavior of the valve under VeraPlus/UI7 Firmware: 1.7.2138.

I can't figure out how to write a scene that would keep the valve closed and effectively disable the open button.  I guess I could write a PLEG scene that would persistently re-close it if some other scene tried to open it perhaps based on the value of a virtual switch set by my Flood Alarm Scene.  I am a newbie to PLEG but I will give that some thought.

Thanks again!

If it were me trying to keep it closed I would create a virtual switch to open and close it and use a PLEG condition to only allow opening if a water leak has not been detected since last opened using order of operation.

So the original switch I would Hide from the Ui or Mobile app so it can not be used by anyone. Only use the new Virtual switch which will now have a built in safety on the open side only.  To over come this you would have to manually use the valve which will work and PLEG will then see the water leak is now not after the valve was last operated and it will all go back to working on the mobile app.

Honestly I used to use Imperihome and not the stock Vera app and it would allow a confirmation click button or code to be entered before a device could be used if you choose. I would just setup that on my phone and not put the valve on anyone else imperihome in the house. So Only I could open it and I needed to enter a code to do it. This will prevent anyone else from opening it on the phone and myself from doing it without entering a code. But I'm assuming you use the stock app and it automatically puts every device on every one in the house phone and has not option for lockouts and such.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: jackbenimble333 on October 14, 2016, 04:16:20 pm


I can't figure out how to write a scene that would keep the valve closed and effectively disable the open button.  I guess I could write a PLEG scene that would persistently re-close it if some other scene tried to open it perhaps based on the value of a virtual switch set by my Flood Alarm Scene.  I am a newbie to PLEG but I will give that some thought.

Thanks again!

If it were me trying to keep it closed I would create a virtual switch to open and close it and use a PLEG condition to only allow opening if a water leak has not been detected since last opened using order of operation.

So the original switch I would Hide from the Ui or Mobile app so it can not be used by anyone. Only use the new Virtual switch which will now have a built in safety on the open side only.  To over come this you would have to manually use the valve which will work and PLEG will then see the water leak is now not after the valve was last operated and it will all go back to working on the mobile app.

Honestly I used to use Imperihome and not the stock Vera app and it would allow a confirmation click button or code to be entered before a device could be used if you choose. I would just setup that on my phone and not put the valve on anyone else imperihome in the house. So Only I could open it and I needed to enter a code to do it. This will prevent anyone else from opening it on the phone and myself from doing it without entering a code. But I'm assuming you use the stock app and it automatically puts every device on every one in the house phone and has not option for lockouts and such.

Wow!  Terrific Hints! I am indeed using the stock Vera UI and App.  I didn't even realize I had a choice. LOL

I am off on another exciting technical adventure in home automation!

I think I can figure out how to make PLEG do something along those lines.  I will have to research on "order of operation".  But I can usually figure out technical stuff!  I use virtual switches in some of my scenes and I know how to make them trigger stuff in PLEG.

Update:  I found the PLEG Basics PDF.  I think it gives enough hints to let me do this. 

I did not know there was a way to hide devices from the Interface either in the Computer UI or the Mobile App.  I will need to look into that.  I wonder if you hide them once and they are hidden in both places or if you need to hide them for the UI and the App separately?  And once hidden, how do I unhide them if I want them back? 

Update:  OK, I have hiding stuff figured out.  That is easy LUUP code that I can activate from a scene.

I bet I can while-away 8 or 16 hours figuring this stuff out and getting it working.  :-)
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: integlikewhoa on October 14, 2016, 05:43:59 pm

Wow!  Terrific Hints! I am indeed using the stock Vera UI and App.  I didn't even realize I had a choice. LOL

I am off on another exciting technical adventure in home automation!
For Apple devices, HomeWave is probley the most popular.

For Andriod devices, Imperihome is the most popular. Imperihome now works on apple also but it's newer and not as feature rich as Homewave thats been in the apple game for some time. So this is a good option for both but just know it's better or has alot more features on andriod then apple. 

I think I can figure out how to make PLEG do something along those lines.  I will have to research on "order of operation".  But I can usually figure out technical stuff!  I use virtual switches in some of my scenes and I know how to make them trigger stuff in PLEG.

Update:  I found the PLEG Basics PDF.  I think it gives enough hints to let me do this. 

Page 15 Sequence Expressions is what is called.

Just use something like  if "WaterLeak; WaterValve" then don't open valve. 

I did not know there was a way to hide devices from the Interface either in the Computer UI or the Mobile App.  I will need to look into that.  I wonder if you hide them once and they are hidden in both places or if you need to hide them for the UI and the App separately?  And once hidden, how do I unhide them if I want them back? 

Update:  OK, I have hiding stuff figured out.  That is easy LUUP code that I can activate from a scene.

I bet I can while-away 8 or 16 hours figuring this stuff out and getting it working.  :-)

I used to use the startup Luup (rather then a scene) which If i remember was under the settings where the serial port configuration is in your vera UI. You put the hide luup code in there, reboot and every start up it hides the devices( since it runs that code at startup). If you ever want to show it then you remove that line (if you have more then one device hidden) and reboot then this time it will show backup. i used to have some weird devices that created several unused children that I wanted to hide to keep things clean.
Title: Re: Water shut off valve
Post by: jackbenimble333 on October 16, 2016, 09:15:41 am

Page 15 Sequence Expressions is what is called.

Just use something like  if "WaterLeak; WaterValve" then don't open valve. 


I got all of this working in PLEG.  Rather than turn my mechanical water valve on and off 400 times while I was testing my PLEG Scenes, I just used a Virtual Switch as a proxy to simulate the valve so I could activate it and deactivate it from another control virtual switch.

In normal mode the control virtual switch can turn on and off the proxy mechanical switch at will.

In Flood Activated Mode the proxy mechanical switch gets "closed" by the flood detected scene and the control virtual switch will no longer control the proxy mechanical switch.

And Normal Mode can be re-activated by going to the proxy (after checking for and fixing simulated leaks :-) ) and pressing the proxy on switch as if it were the green button on the real valve.
 
I could easily substitute the real physical valve into my PLEG in place of the proxy test valve with just minor tweaks.  I am not sure if I am going to do that or not.  As I explained in a previous post, I am extremely paranoid about water leaks as they have cost me a ruined home and a lot of money.  I think that perhaps I am best off if I stick to the "Keep it Simple Stupid" principle for this most mission critical function for my Vera.  I have read plenty of threads in this forum about Vera being flakey and even a few threads about PLEG not working properly after automatic upgrades.  I am not sure if I will be helping myself by introducing my amateurish PLEG code into an already less than stable environment.  I am thinking about it.

It was my first and a very interesting exercise in configuring PLEG and was a great learning experience.  I now have a basic knowledge of triggers, conditions and actions and I also have rudimentary skill at analyzing timestamps and true/false conditions to see why stuff is not working.   I also have a beginner knowledge of the PLEG UI which is good but also complex.  Thanks for your hints and guidance!