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General => General => Topic started by: MichaelCoffin on March 06, 2018, 10:43:17 am

Title: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: MichaelCoffin on March 06, 2018, 10:43:17 am
I have a VeraPlus, and I need to add key fob remotes that are easy for "non-technical" types to use.  I want there to be, at a minimum, a LOCK and UNLOCK button on the remote with an easily understood icon.  This seems to be totally impossible with zWave (I have the Aeon Labs ZW088-A arriving later this week, but the 4 buttons are unlabeled making it impossible for the average person to use, you'd need to know UNLOCK is "button 1", LOCK is "button 2", etc.).

The VeraPlus supports Zigbee, and I see there are a few more key fob remote options if I use Zigbee.  The one I like best is the Securifi Key Fob AL-KFB01:

https://www.amazon.com/Securifi-Key-Fob-AL-KFB01/dp/B00TBXMA8C

But this one is pretty hard to find for sale.  Assuming I can find one, will it pair with the VeraPlus and can I use the 4 buttons to trigger scenes?

Same question on the SMC Wireless Key Fob-SMCKF01-Z:

https://www.amazon.com/SMC-SMCKF01-Z-SMC-Wireless-Key-Fob-SMCKF01-Z/dp/B00PMZEKZO

Setting aside its obscene price, will it pair with VeraPlus and can I use the 5 buttons to trigger scenes?

-MC
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: Zoro on March 06, 2018, 10:58:31 am
Hi

  Would suggest you choose devices listed on the Vera compatibility web page. That way you can ensure it works with vera:

                         http://getvera.com/compatibility/

Z
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: MichaelCoffin on March 06, 2018, 11:21:06 am
Yes, but unfortunately the ONLY key fobs/remotes that have LOCK/UNLOCK labeled buttons are the 2GIG ones that only work with VeraLink.  There are none for Zigbee and the few that are available for zWave have either no button labels or in the case of z-Wave.me one has A/B/C/D and the other has 1/2/3/4.

The two Zigbee key fobs above have simple intuitive buttons for the "average person" to understand, so if I can get them to work I'd choose either of those.

PS:  Most of the z-Wave devices in my house are not on the Vera Compatibility List and they work just fine.  I'd prefer devices that have been fully vetted by Vera, but not being on the list doesn't mean the devices won't work properly.

-MC
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: pit on March 06, 2018, 12:28:32 pm
our "non technical persons" work with nodon soft remote
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: MichaelCoffin on March 06, 2018, 12:37:47 pm
Thanks but kind of big for a key fob, and again no intuitive buttons.  Just +/-/O/o :(
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: cybrmage on March 06, 2018, 09:26:52 pm
The VeraPlus supports Zigbee, and I see there are a few more key fob remote options if I use Zigbee.  The one I like best is the Securifi Key Fob AL-KFB01:

https://www.amazon.com/Securifi-Key-Fob-AL-KFB01/dp/B00TBXMA8C

But this one is pretty hard to find for sale.  Assuming I can find one, will it pair with the VeraPlus and can I use the 4 buttons to trigger scenes?


The Securifi Keyfob wil *sometimes* pair with Vera Plus... BUT... It does not have any supported clusters, and will not generate a Vera device... AND, if you press a key on the fob, it results in a LUUP Reload.

So. Don't even bother, the hastle is not worth it.
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: dagrider on March 07, 2018, 09:54:49 am
I am thinking about buying the Aeon Labs ZW088...looks like the keys are flat. If you have a label maker you could use that to mark the keys. I have a label maker that supports the use of fonts, so could possibly find some dingbat fonts with symbols too.
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: MichaelCoffin on March 07, 2018, 10:10:40 am
Thanks Cybermage, looks like Securifi is definitely out (too bad, it would have been perfect - and you can pick them up from retailers in Canada for around $15).  :(

Dagrider, making keycaps with a label maker is a possibility for the ZW088 - but a PITA.  I have a Brother PTouch and can try doing that on a ZW088 that is arriving today.  Of course, with regular use they'll probably fall off so it'll be an ongoing problem.

Any thoughts on the SMC Wireless Key Fob-SMCKF01-Z?  Does anybody have one, and have you gotten it to work with Vera?

-MC
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: thief on March 07, 2018, 10:27:27 am
Just so u guys know...
The ZW088 works well, but.. The battery lasts for maximum 1 month.
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: MichaelCoffin on March 07, 2018, 10:37:47 am
Seriously?  A month?!?!?

The remote for my car is 8 years old, STILL on the original battery!  :(

-MC
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: thief on March 08, 2018, 12:47:42 am
Seriously?  A month?!?!?

The remote for my car is 8 years old, STILL on the original battery!  :(

-MC

Yeah, same here.
I bought my zw088 3 months ago and I?m on a third battery.
And that is with 1 button press/day

I have contacted their support and they confirmed it is battery hungry.
The batteries last a bit longer if you set the wake up interval to a a higher value, but not more than 2 months.
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: MichaelCoffin on March 08, 2018, 08:40:15 am
I set up and programmed my ZW088 this morning.  A few questions:

* The battery power level indicator doesn't show up on UI7, is there a command I can send to enable this?!?!  I set a notification to warn me when battery level is less than 25%, but I don't suspect this will ever trigger if the ZW088 isn't reporting battery power level.  :(

*  This is really a one-way device to my thinking, by that I mean I don't need Vera polling it or waking it up (or do I?).  Can I set polling to 0 and WakeUpInterval to 604800 (1 week) to conserve battery life?  It definitely doesn't need to be polled, in fact polling will always fail whenever I'm out of the house.

PS:  It looks like Aeotec has discontinued the MiniMote (glad I just bought a bunch!) and this NanoMote will be coming out sometime in 2018, including a key ring loop option.  Still no key-caps but these might be easier to label with a label maker than this ZW088, and hopefully the battery life will be much better.

https://aeotec.com/small-z-wave-remote-control

-MC
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: thief on March 08, 2018, 09:25:10 am
The battery power level indicator came up for me just fine
Try re-pairing it.

And yes, you can set the wakeupinterval to 604 800 (don't know the upper limit for this)
Or you can set the wakeupinterval to=0, for never to wake up
Polling can be disabled too.
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: MichaelCoffin on March 08, 2018, 09:39:09 am
I didn't have to re-pair it, I just went to Advanced -> Configure Node Right Now and voila, the battery level indicator appeared.  Thanks for the suggestion.

I set wakeupinterval and polling to 0 and will monitor how long the battery lasts with this configuration. 

-MC
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: thief on March 08, 2018, 09:46:29 am
I didn't have to re-pair it, I just went to Advanced -> Configure Node Right Now and voila, the battery level indicator appeared.  Thanks for the suggestion.

Ahh, you had just paired it, that explains it.

Did you configure it already with polling 0 etc. ?

Let me know how well you get the device to accept the changes.
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: MichaelCoffin on March 08, 2018, 09:51:58 am
Yes, I had already set polling to 0 - but right after doing the Configure Right Now I manually polled the device (not sure if that helped, but I wanted them to "see" each other, and if the config changes were queued on the Vera that should "push them out").

I'm going to check battery life daily and record it with these settings and try to remember how many times I pushed a button on this thing just to have some idea of what the life expectancy will be for the battery.

Meanwhile, I may but one of the SMC key fobs referenced above to see how it works - I just hate to spend $70 on something that may not work at all.  Maybe I'll buy it on Amazon, that way if it doesn't work they are usually VERY good about taking things back for just about any reason.

-MC
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: cybrmage on March 08, 2018, 12:44:36 pm
Meanwhile, I may but one of the SMC key fobs referenced above to see how it works - I just hate to spend $70 on something that may not work at all.  Maybe I'll buy it on Amazon, that way if it doesn't work they are usually VERY good about taking things back for just about any reason.

Doing some research into this item, it seems that it is designed for the xfinity platform. The only success reports I have seem were on this platform, and there are reports that the claim of it being a zigbee device is wrong. If it is Zigbee, it will not work... Vera does *NOT* support the clusters that are required for keyfob support.
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: MichaelCoffin on March 08, 2018, 01:47:16 pm
Thanks Cybermage.  Scratch the SMC too I guess.  :(

-MC
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: MichaelCoffin on March 09, 2018, 07:46:59 am
Just a quick heads-up, the chain on the ZW088 is pure garbage!  I used this for the the first time yesterday, got out of my car and tried to slide the cover open to expose the buttons (I couldn't remember which way to slide it, turns out it slides TOWARDS the key ring, which is a bit unintuitive since that ring can obstruct the lid from sliding).  While I was fumbling with it the chain broke and the ZW088 fell to the ground.  The chain links are just bits of very weak metal "pinched" on one end to complete the loop, the slightest bit of pressure will open up the pinched section breaking the chain!  :(

I'm removing the chain entirely today and will use a couple of sturdy rings to attach it to my main key ring.

-MC
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: MichaelCoffin on April 14, 2018, 07:56:48 am
Just a quick update on the ZW088.  I've been using it for a little over 5 weeks.  I had originally set Polling=0 and WakeupInterval=0 but I'm presently running with Polling=300 and WakeUpInterval=240 (Note: I think I read somewhere that if you set WakeupInterval to anything less than 240 it will default to 240, 0 does not turn it off entirely).  I rarely use this device, some days not at all and others typically 2 button pushes/day (one to lock the door when leaving, one to unlock it upon return).  The first 4 weeks the battery level remained at 100% so I was encouraged that maybe I'd get acceptable battery life, but it may well be a case where the device was not drawing ANY power much of that time due to a poorly designed battery holder!

About 2 or 3 weeks into using this I noticed it "disappearing" off the network, and indeed when I tried to use it the LED would not light suggesting a dead battery (despite the UI indicating battery level 100%).  I removed the back cover an inspected the battery, it had plenty of power - when I reseated it everything worked fine.  The design of the battery holder sucks, there is nothing providing pressure to keep the battery in contact with the holder.  Over time it seems to break the connection and the device appears dead, but if you "squeeze" the unit from the back it comes back to life.  I may try to insert a thin bit of cork or something similar between the battery and the plastic cover to apply more pressure on the battery.

Meanwhile, the battery level is presently reporting 65% so with very light use it has dropped 35% over 5 weeks.  I hate the little sliding cover over the buttons, I wish it could be removed - I always find myself fumbling with it trying to access the buttons.  :(
Title: Re: zWave and Zigbee Key Fob Remotes
Post by: MichaelCoffin on April 15, 2018, 08:47:01 am
FYI, I shoved in a little sliver of cardboard on the ZW088 and so far it hasn't dropped off the network, so it is helping with the battery-fit problem.  Let's see how long this lasts, if the cardboard flattens it may not apply enough pressure.

-MC