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General => Lighting & Load Control => Topic started by: eyalp on March 12, 2018, 05:24:14 am

Title: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: eyalp on March 12, 2018, 05:24:14 am
I have about 5 FGS223 switches and all have the same problem: There's a noticeable lag when turning any of their switches on\off - The switch is usually activated immediately but right after that vera is not responding for a few seconds and if I try activating another switch during that time it will wait until the previous operation completes.
Anyone else also encountering this issue? Is this a known issue? Any solution?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on March 12, 2018, 06:16:19 am
Yes a few of us are having a number of issues with them - a significant lag recognising a change, sometimes it even times out and then turns it back off again, etc.

Vera are aware of it, but from what I've seen they are insanely slow with supporting hardware let alone fixing issues like this.  Horrific when you think this should be a quick and easy fix.

So be sure to create a support ticket so they know yet another person is suffering this - they can manage at their end collating them and hopefully get a fix out there quickly as it is really quite painful :(
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: eyalp on March 12, 2018, 03:36:51 pm
Thanks. I created a ticket and am really hoping this will be fixed soon...  :-\
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on March 22, 2018, 10:34:20 am
don't hold your breath.

I updated my ticket and they told me that it's under investigation. they're still not sure what's causing this weir behavior (hint: it's some misinterpretation from the zwave commands, from vera or fibaro) and they've no ETA ATM.

overall I like these devices and my Vera, but if things do not improve quickly, I'll need to find an alternate route. Since I invested in 20 FGS 223, Vera is the best candidate to be swapped out...
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on March 22, 2018, 05:33:41 pm
doverall I like these devices and my Vera, but if things do not improve quickly, I'll need to find an alternate route. Since I invested in 20 FGS 223, Vera is the best candidate to be swapped out...
Same boat - I have a FGS-223 behind every single wall switch so Vera is the cheapest, simplest, and of course the culprit to go if it comes to that
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: eyalp on March 29, 2018, 04:54:08 am
Same here. I wish I knew about these issues before buying these switches, but definitely Vera would be the easiest to replace (not only in terms of price).
Any alternatives you guys are looking at?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: avihoo on March 30, 2018, 01:54:13 am
I have the same problem. delays and inconsistent behavior of the Fibaro Double Switch 2 Gen5 with Vera Plus. I am also considering replacing the Vera Plus.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on March 30, 2018, 07:34:45 pm
I wrote back to my ticket asking for an update and they advised they are still working on it.  Doesn't sound like anything is coming soon as they suggested remoting in and downgrading my firmware!?!

What a nightmare - day to day it's simply a pain in the butt having them act this way, but overall it causes all sorts of issues with my HomeKit integration (that depends upon instant response, and Vera takes 5-10 seconds to work out what the devil it is doing with these Fibaro devices) and various scenes keep malfunctioning.

Again, horrifies me all the Z-Wave vendors boast that Z-Wave is a standard that enables anything to work with anything... and yet the reality is you couldn't possibly find a bigger train wreck of compatibility issues.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: jono2g on April 05, 2018, 09:09:00 am
Same issue here, what do you guys plan to replace Vera with if you do?

Does HC2 have lag issues? might be worth few hundred more for a fast system if mainly using FGS-223

kind regards,

Jonathan
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: dotneft on April 05, 2018, 02:55:11 pm
The same issue. Also I have aeotec wallmount quad... it is pain to enable one channel and second channel... have to wait 5-8 seconds :-D
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on April 13, 2018, 09:19:47 am
Forgot to mention the other day, that Vera finally gave me an update.  They say they have identified the issue causing the Fibaro Dimmer 2 and Fibaro Dual Switch 2 to have major lags/failures, and are working on a fix for it.

However they say it will be included in a "bigger firmware update".

I wasn't able to get better clarification on what a "bigger" firmware update is - so I can only cross my fingers it is the next firmware release as this issue is not only causing major delays, but often causes scenes to fail.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on April 18, 2018, 06:26:58 pm
Next beta firmware announced and no mentions at all 😪
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on April 18, 2018, 07:12:13 pm
FFS >:(
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: jono2g on April 25, 2018, 04:27:00 am
Just an update, i have been using the GOAP double and much faster with instant update and readings out of the box.

If anyone is looking for a better alternative
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on April 25, 2018, 09:31:11 am
Unfortunately I have Fibaro modules throughout my entire house - if Vera won't fix this anytime soon I'd just dump it and go HC2.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: snaufal on April 28, 2018, 09:56:32 am
FGS223 has been around for quite a while. Vera was very late in supporting them. We have just installed about 22 FGS-223 devices devices and the response is unacceptable. Is there a workaround for this?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on April 28, 2018, 07:23:33 pm
I have 19 of the Fibaro Dual Switch 2 FGS-223 and 5 of the Fibaro Dimmer 2 FGB-212.

My entire family is totally sick to death of the immense lag, the IMMENSE problems it causes with scenes, and sometimes lights even turning back off after turning on or even lights turning back on a while after being turned off.

I honestly don't know how much longer I can hold out defecting to the HC2 - it'll cost me a bit but this whole situation is a huge kick in the nuts - 1) This situation shouldn't even be possible given the whole claim that Z-Wave's advantage is anything works with anything, 2) If Vera's claim that they've found and fixed the problem is true, yet want to deliberately wait 12 months to release it, they could at least offer to remote in and manually patch those of us with a crippled setup.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Almighty on May 02, 2018, 02:55:54 am
Same here, I replaced one of my Gen1 double switches with FGS-223, to get the double/triple click events, but the delays with scenes are really not acceptable.  :-\
Does anyone have experience with these switches in HomeSeer?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on May 02, 2018, 05:47:17 am
Well I've come home to an absolute mouthful tonight.

When my wife came home in the afternoon the scene that controls turning power back on to all sorts of appliances, opening the blinds, turning the brightness up on lights, etc COMPLETELY failed.  She was basically stuffed and is LIVID with me.

She's fed up with turning on a light and it turning back off again a short while later because Vera was too confused about what the hell it was doing with recognising whether it was on or not.

She's fed up with the dimming going friggen spastic because our Siri integration doesn't understand why the hell Vera doesn't respond to the dimming command within, you know, an eternity for a computer like 10 or so seconds...

She's fed up with walking down a corridor and the friggen lights coming up 10 seconds after she has already walked all the way down it and gone into another room.

She's sick of scenes that half execute, or today didn't even execute, because Vera gets all confused about whether it has or hasn't turned a light on or off or changed a dim level.

She's sick of the whole bloody thing for one bloody reason - Vera sitting there all confused about Fibaro Double Switch and Fibaro Dimmer command executions and therefore stuffing everything up.

So naturally I'm very pissed off right now............................

And Almighty yes, ironically, a mate of mine went HomeSeer and has like me gone all out with Fibaro devices.  He doesn't have a single complaint.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on May 02, 2018, 08:22:35 am
I've sent a reply to my ticket asking if there's any chance I can perhaps get a beta copy of the revised driver for the Fibaro Dual Switch 2 and Fibaro Dimmer 2 - I'm pretty desperate at this stage as Vera is tearing my setup into the ground , my alternative will be to just splash out on the HC2 as that will slot straight into everything I have already bought (including Siri integration).
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on May 02, 2018, 08:44:51 am
I doubt it's technically possible, because their drivers are in fact tightly coupled with the firmware.
I feel your pain.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on May 02, 2018, 07:34:23 pm
I have good news, good news, and bad news.

The good news is Vera have got back to me and confirmed they are still confident they have identified the cause of this problem.

The other good news is they say they will gladly share a beta release with me of the "patch".

The bad news... brace yourselves... they haven't even started work on the fix.

Have to be honest and say my use of Vera is likely to come to an end when I consider this and how utterly fed up my wife was last night.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: dotneft on May 03, 2018, 03:49:39 pm
I also consider to finish Vera usage, I installed the system for my mom. She lives in different country, so I tried to simplify her life, but currently I have different situation.

PS: Please share the link of beta version when you will have it :-)
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sorin on May 04, 2018, 06:47:09 am
At the first sight these devices are "lagging" with Vera because Vera's method of inclusion for GEN5 devices is only SECURE mode, per z-wave specs. Although gen5, apparently these devices are not implemented to work very well with secure mode.

Vera does not have the capability of including devices in "unsecured".
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: dotneft on May 04, 2018, 07:22:19 am
Vera does not have the capability of including devices in "unsecured"

Thank you for explanation! So I suppose it is not "fast" solution. It is not a week, or couple of weeks. Right?

PS: I tried to downgrade the firmware where FGS-223 was not included officially, and it works pretty fast :-)
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on May 04, 2018, 07:27:37 am
AFAIK other controllers don't have this problem.
Sorin, have you reported it to Fibaro for cross checking?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on May 04, 2018, 08:46:01 am
Okay let's entertain the thought for a minute that Vera has perfectly written code (bahahahaha, okay let's really entertain it) and the Fibaro is indeed the one that is faulty when in secure mode (even though it works with other controllers?).

Also, let's acknowledge it is a requirement for Z-Wave Plus certification that controllers MUST force secure mode - only allowing non-secure if that's all the device is transmitting?  Although again, it seems other controllers quite happily allow you to choose - but perhaps they are not certified?

Thankfully many DEVICES allow you to control whether they do a secure or non-secure inclusion.  Although I totally rather it all be encrypted and have chosen the secure inclusion for all my devices that have two methods of inclusion.

There is still a VERY quick and VERY easy solution here.  Add an unofficial setting that sets Vera to do non-secure inclusions.  By default it is secure, NOTHING in the GUI, and thus out of the box Vera remains totally compliant as nothing has changed.  But we set a special setting, say via a LUA command, and Vera now UNOFFICIALLY does non-secure inclusions.  Again Vera remains a FULLY compliant devices and still retains certification, but give us a means to UNOFFICIALLY engage this mode.

The precedent for this is already set.  The Z-UNO by default works by the standards and is a compliant and certified device - but the end-user is able to very easily reconfigure it to work in very, very, very non-compliant ways.  Many other products and software across many industries also have hidden settings to engage unofficial modes of operation.

I would much rather have these things remain secure and encrypted, so Vera and Fibaro working together to fix the problem would to me be a much better solution.  But I know this isn't going to happen - Z'Wave's "everything works with everything, no exceptions" is a load of crap, OTA firmware updates has actually been a crippling disaster so we won't be getting a fix from Fibaro, the vendors are not the big happy family Z-Wave tries to claim so Vera ain't going to work with Fibaro to identify the problems and then make Vera compensate for them, so Vera providing a quick and easy way to unofficially do non-secure inclusion is the best option here it would seem is the only solution...

On the other hand, working with the Z-Wave chip guys to "officially" provide this will mean a year or more... assuming it even happens...
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on May 04, 2018, 08:55:32 am
Sorry quick question... didn't investigation done by others reveal the Vera was accidentally expecting a non-encrypted response back from the Fibaro, when in fact it sends an encrypted one due to secure mode?  Was this wrong?

Also, I'm curious why the Fibaro Single Switch 2 works perfectly... but the Fibaro Dimmer 2 and Fibaro Dual Switch 2 do not.  Must be something Fibaro (or Vera) are doing differently between those three devices.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: gugge on May 05, 2018, 03:32:18 pm
I have a vera secure at home, running fw 1.7.3535. I have a couple of FGS-223 (Double Switch 2) and some Dimmer 2:s, and they are all running fine.

I bought another vera secure to have at office, and once connected the first thing i did was to upgrade it to fw 1.7.3799 (7.0.26) . But when trying to add the some FGS-223:s and Dimmer 2's  things started to fail.

No variables can be sent to the devices to change the switch type (to momentary switch). The controller goes up and down, and the two FGS-223 I managed to connect reports that they are connected/disconnected with 2-3 hours interval. Pressing the physical switch connected to the devices causes a lag on roughly 8-10 seconds as described by others before anything happens.

When looking into the z-wave settings there is a big difference. The old firmware runs Z-wave version 4.5 L:1 while the new is 6.1 L:1. The old controller has "role" set to "Suc SIS: YES PRI: YES" while the new is "Master SIS: NO PRI: YES".

Both of my setups are only using Z-wave plus devices so I guess (hope) that they are both running in a secured mode, so in my case i doubt it is the secure stuff that is the problem. Does anyone know what the role is, and if that could be what is causing the vera to behave like this? And more important, how do I change it?

Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on May 06, 2018, 08:32:57 pm
Public service warning.

I have seen many discussions where people have pondered about a supposed fall-back to non-secure inclusion if out of the 1-2m range. because it's too far for the secure signal to make the distance.

As I have not found any confirmation regarding this, I decided to be the guinea pig.  First, to stop the potential for Network Wide Inclusion, I cut power to every single Z-Wave device throughout my home.  Next, I wired up a long lead to a Fibaro Dual Switch 2.  Finally, I took that into the backyard - so not only a long distance but two walls between the Vera and device.

The inclusion itself still occurs, as the core Z-Wave communications range is just fine, BUT it's still a secure inclusion.  Unfortunately, as it was well outside of the 1-2m range for doing the low power encrypted key exchange, the inclusion goes to crap.  I stress again it was STILL a secure inclusion, it did not revert to a non-secure inclusion, but the device is broken as it is a secure device with no security keys exchanged.

In fact, Vera gets in one of its major moods where no matter how many times you unpair, or give up and try and delete, it claims to have done it but never does.  You end up with a device that's broken but can't be removed because Vera has contact with the device and tries talking with it, but cannot do so properly so the unpairing and even outright delete (which you would think the point of is to simply purge it out) simply never works.  The solution is to remove power from the Fibaro, THEN do the outright delete (actually twice, Vera is still in a bad mood the first time), and then power the Fibaro back up and do a factory reset on it.

So this often discussed theory that a long distance pairing might cause a non-secure inclusion is, I'm afraid, false.  At least for Vera, maybe the theory came about because other controllers do fall-back?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sorin on May 07, 2018, 07:18:23 am
Vera does not have the capability of including devices in "unsecured"  mode and the team is working with the Z-Wave chip manufacturer on allowing this feature as part of the certification.

Thank you for explanation! So I suppose it is not "fast" solution. It is not a week, or couple of weeks. Right?

PS: I tried to downgrade the firmware where FGS-223 was not included officially, and it works pretty fast :-)

It's being discussed at every level both with Fibaro and with Silicon labs and we're hoping for a hasty solution.

AFAIK other controllers don't have this problem.
Sorin, have you reported it to Fibaro for cross checking?

To my knowledge, Fibaro gateway has the option to include devices in non-secure mode.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on May 07, 2018, 07:23:01 am
Thanks for being transparent.
We hope for quick solution.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: dotneft on May 07, 2018, 04:23:02 pm
Thank you for good news! But I'm a little bit aware about upgrade firmware in the switch :-( Is it possible with Vera?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on May 07, 2018, 07:51:02 pm
It's being discussed at every level both with Fibaro and with Silicon labs and we're hoping for a hasty solution.
Okay tickle me impressed - this is exactly the kind of cooperation one expects with the Z-Wave platform, but from a consumer perspective seems to rarely happen, so I'll chat with the wife about persevering for a little longer.

To my knowledge, Fibaro gateway has the option to include devices in non-secure mode.
I think he meant if you had contacted Fibaro about your claim their devices are at fault here.  But sounds like you are indeed working with them on this as a high priority.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sorin on May 08, 2018, 06:13:12 am
It's not very constructive to blame another manufacturer :) Although sometimes the truth may be somewhere in the middle  8), we'd prefer to take it on us, especially because customers are expecting this to work ON VERA no matter what's going on in the background.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on May 21, 2018, 07:49:05 pm
If Vera didn't want to provide a behind the scenes way of triggering a non-secure inclusion, there is an alternative staring at us in the face.

If you Add a Device and select a Fibaro product from the list, then do a non-secure inclusion.  For every single other case, do a secure inclusion.  Even if a temporary solution until either the secure issue is sorted out, or a proper non-secure option is negotiated and added.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: eyalp on May 28, 2018, 05:38:15 pm
If you Add a Device and select a Fibaro product from the list, then do a non-secure inclusion.  For every single other case, do a secure inclusion.  Even if a temporary solution until either the secure issue is sorted out, or a proper non-secure option is negotiated and added.
Did you try it and it actually solves the problem?

Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on May 28, 2018, 07:17:00 pm
Did you try it and it actually solves the problem?

Vera doesn't really do that, I was just suggesting it.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: fooey on June 03, 2018, 07:58:47 am
Does this lag only apply with controller/scene activation?

I only ask, because I have these modules behind every light switch and don't encounter any physical switch lag. Controller/Scene varies from instant to some lag (sometimes a while...), but as the primary method is via physical switches it isn't too much of an issue yet as I haven't got the stage where I setup control of the lights via motion sensors.

Vera Plus firmware 1.7.3831
Version: 6.1 L:1
Locale: eu
Role: Suc SIS: YES PRI: YES
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on June 03, 2018, 09:52:11 am
The lag is:
1. Intermittently with Vera sending the instruction to turn on/off - whether via a scene or doing it within the interface
2. Vera understanding the switch is now on or off
3. Sometimes Vera gives up with the on or off and undoes it

So physically switching the light on and off is fine.

It gets more complicated than this though.  Let's say you go directly on to the light switch and turn it on and then straight off - over the next 10-20 seconds Vera will be go nuts deciding whether the light is on or not.  Vera may then finally agree that it is and will now turn it on at the Vera end... but of course Vera will then realise that IT has just turned the light on, but the light isn't actually on, so it will then try and turn it on... now that may fail because, again Vera, will be confused but it may also work.  End result is that after turning that light on and off and walking away, 10-20 seconds later it might turn back on again.

You don't have to quickly turn it on and straight off, this can happen simply by turning off the light and walking away - sometimes Vera will fail in its attempt to acknowledge it being off and will decide it is on... but the light is actually off so it will then try and correct that.  It's just that doing a quick change is a sure fire way to aggravate the problem.

Forget about scenes with more than one Fibaro device - they'll seem to work and will then suffer immense problems with massive delays, some items working and some not, and heck in the immense time the scene takes to run Vera might do one of its wonderfully stupid LUUP restarts and that'll kill things right there too.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: fooey on June 03, 2018, 12:28:13 pm
I've experienced UI / App / Scene lag where I have to repeat the action sometimes but never had my physical switches been overridden by the controller before.

Even if lights are turned on and off in quick succession, what you are describing doesn't happen to me.

It's good to hear that the lag is an issue that will get solved (eventually), which will make scenes & Alexa more useful.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on June 03, 2018, 07:28:52 pm
Mine was okay to start with too, annoying but workable... but then she gets worse.  Maybe it was adding more and more devices until my entire home was full of them, maybe it was just Vera being so under powered that she suffocates herself over time, whatever it was things just got worse and worse and worse and worse until eventually she committed suicide :(
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: fooey on June 07, 2018, 04:21:13 pm
Thanks for the explanation Tillsy.

Now that I'm delving more into the app / scene side of it, I can also confirm I am having the same issues!

The UI shows the retry messages and the logs show stuff like 'got a secure command for unsecure command class' and various 'DecryptMessage' errors so this thread and other other one seem to have hit it on the head as to why (device seems to need non-secure mode).

I'm hoping that the next firmware will fix this as every room in the house has this module in the light switches.

PS. The same bad behaviour doesn't appear to happen with the Fibaro Dimmer 2 FGD-212 which is also Gen 5, and I assume added in secure inclusion. It activates pretty much instantly with no retry errors / no log errors.

Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on June 09, 2018, 03:02:27 am
All sorted: http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,82914.msg390399.html#msg390399
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: fooey on June 09, 2018, 06:22:52 pm
Sorry to hear of another person leaving Vera  :'(

What's interesting that this has also been questioned on the Fibaro forums (https://forum.fibaro.com/topic/28628-delays-in-reaction/) and their support informs users to include them as non-secure (then there is no problem).

What we need is a way/method to allow non-secure inclusions in Vera! Until it's fixed properly, even if this was made possible via command line in SSH this would help the immediate problem otherwise all automation/scenes are pretty much useless if they contain this device.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Klathmon on June 12, 2018, 10:05:41 am
There's gotta be a way to force this controller to treat it as a non-secure device.

Could we modify backups and then restore them? Possibly change some of the xml or json files to trick the controller into thinking it doesn't support secure?

I see from this (http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/ZWave_Debugging (http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/ZWave_Debugging)) old URL that there used to be a zwave_products_sys.xml which could tell the vera to us specific settings based on the manufacturer ID and product ID.

That file is no longer on my VERA, but maybe it will still honor it if I add it? And if we can get it to use that file, then we can modify the zwave classes to maybe enforce a non-secure inclusion?

Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: fooey on June 13, 2018, 02:05:58 am
Vera are aware of this and are working on it but there are no timelines yet.

I hope it?s fixed properly soon, or at least have a workaround until so as I have 19 of these devices!
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: cw-kid on June 14, 2018, 07:24:50 am
You can add me to list as well as having problems, I recently bought my first Fibaro Double Switch relay module and it seems very slow responding to On / Off commands.

In the log I see:

Code: [Select]
ZWaveNode::HandlePollUpdate node 66 device 278 got a secure command for unsecure command class 0x32 command 0x2 m_iFrameID 5951/38258960 data 0x1 0x44 0x0 0x0 0x0 0x26 (#D###&) <0x769d4520>
In the UI7 web GUI if I manually turn Off / On the Fibaro relay module it says "Sending the Z-Wave command after 0 retries..." underneath and seems very slow at reacting to the button presses.

Likewise when using LUA code to turn Off / On the relay module it doesn't react fast enough.

I have this relay connected to some outdoor PIR security lights and wanted to be able to send a series of commands for the manual override on the PIR security lights to keep them ON when I wish. The override power routine is OFF/ON/OFF/ON within two seconds.

I have the Fibaro relay connected to an outdoor light switch and using the switch I can get the override to work.

However when trying to do it in software its way too slow and doesn't work.

I just commented about this on another thread here (http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,25617.msg391828.html#msg391828)

Vera support said to me recently:

"The delays you encountered for the Fibaro FGS-223 switch when the scenes are running were reported to our development team and they are working on a fix patch, but for the moment I dont have an ETA for when the fix would be released."

I don't seem to have any issues with my Fibaro Dimmer 2's apart from since the last Firmware update it started displaying the red banner "Can't detect device" again.

So how do you tell if a device was included in secure or un-secure mode ?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on June 19, 2018, 03:23:36 am
new beta announced, still no joy for us :(
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: fooey on June 19, 2018, 05:44:17 am
That is really disappointing  :( even more so that it?s not even acknowledged as a known issue with this device (outside of this forum post)

It would be handy to know rough timelines - one month / six months ??
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: cw-kid on June 19, 2018, 06:00:14 am
That is really disappointing  :( even more so that it?s not even acknowledged as a known issue with this device (outside of this forum post)

It would be handy to know rough timelines - one month / six months ??

Vera support said to me recently:

"The delays you encountered for the Fibaro FGS-223 switch when the scenes are running were reported to our development team and they are working on a fix patch, but for the moment I dont have an ETA for when the fix would be released."

How long though? Your guess is as good as mine.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on June 19, 2018, 06:50:18 am
that's the standard response since we first reported it, about 12 months ago, just after they integrated the devices and claimed it was fully supported...
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: cw-kid on June 19, 2018, 08:50:28 am
That's not good then I assumed a recent firmware update had caused the problem not that the problem was 12 months old or whatever.  :(

I only installed my first Fibaro Double Switch a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: cybrmage on June 19, 2018, 08:57:53 am
How long though? Your guess is as good as mine.

The latest beta (7.0.27) announces the Leviton DZPD3 plug-in dimmer as a newly supported device... The device was released by Leviton in 2014...
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: cw-kid on June 19, 2018, 10:04:14 am
 A Z-Wave and ZigBee sensor manufacturer from China I spoke to earlier today said:

"We didn't test it use Vera Plus Z-wave controller, but we kept the communicating with them. Because of the business needs, they need charges fees for connecting our sensors, and the project speed goes slowly."

So sounds like Vera are charging to have devices fully integrated /  added to Vera. From a business point of view I can see why they would do that.

But not good if we want to add a device that then doesn't quite work correctly or takes Vera ages to add that device for official support.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: cw-kid on June 19, 2018, 10:36:38 am
I don't know why I didn't consider in the past, the fact that Vera might be charging manufacturers to get on their official works with Vera device list.

But it might explain why some manufacturers just don't bother doing it.

Some Z-Wave devices just work out of the box fine, others like the China ones I have been using recently are included to Vera but need tweaks with the device type XML and JSON files and often there are two devices, parent / child when there ought to be just a single device really.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on June 19, 2018, 11:01:51 am
it makes sense for unknown devices, but popular ones should be supported out of the box, unless you want your customers to move somewhere else.
but this is worse, because they declared the device as fully supported, but in reality it's not, and they'd note it if they tested for more than 20 seconds, taking a look at their own zwave logs...
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on June 19, 2018, 08:32:02 pm
Don't forget one of the biggest advantages of Z-wave is that everything works in a standard way so all Z-Wave devices and controllers automatically work together in harmony.  Bahahahaha... reality is a completely different story!

I've come up with two ways of getting devices included unsecurely on the Vera and get can it reacting to Fibaro switches very fast - but with complete seriousness I honestly think I'll just be causing you more pain, if you were to start getting your Fibaro devices working properly in Vera you'll just then run into more problems such as Vera intermittently failing your scenes or crashing or whatever... honestly your solution is finding a better platform, Vera has some fundamental issues that aren't getting the priority they need... but don't worry they're busy adding exciting new functionality on top of all this :(
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: cw-kid on June 20, 2018, 04:08:46 am

I've come up with two ways of getting devices included unsecurely on the Vera and get can it reacting to Fibaro switches very fast

How do you include Z-Wave Plus devices unsecurely on Vera?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: fooey on June 20, 2018, 05:48:03 am
I would be interested to know as well.


EDIT : ignore below as this was a UI5 method not available in UI7.

Following on from @klathmon post above, theory seems to imply we could define a custom device xml for this device that maybe gets the device to add in non secure mode?

Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on June 20, 2018, 06:48:00 am
1. Use another controller, such as HomeSeer in trial mode, to add the devices in non-secure mode.  Then do a Z-Wave transfer between the two controllers.  Vera ends up with a COPY of the device - which you are inherited a non-secure inclusion of.  Turn it on and off as much as you like and it happens nice and quick (for Vera anyway), no spinning for 5-20 seconds or scenes going crazy.  I've temporarily got most of my Fibaro's duplicated on my Vera from my HomeSeer setup - purely temporarily for my old HomeKit integration, but it means even with HomeSeer shut down the Vera has non-secure direct access to the devices.  A few things need manually fixing here and there, dimmers work perfectly but double switches need the second channel fixing up, but works a treat.

2. Use an Aeotec Z-Stick.  Walk around and do an inclusion directly on the stick - no software, no gateway, just directly via the stick's own inbuilt battery.  They end up as a non-secure.  Then plug that into Vera, set the stick as your Z-Wave port, finish a bit of config, and done.

Both worked a treat, but ironically only came about as a result of my experimenting to get Vera to temporarily have secondary access to everything until I have HomeKit working natively with HomeSeer...
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: fooey on June 20, 2018, 06:58:34 am
Thanks Tillsy

I have a spare Pi and a Aeotec stick. I may need to follow your method 1 (using the stick though) then copy the device back so I can still use the built in zwave radio rather than the external USB.

Hopefully that buys enough time to stick with Vera till it?s fixed properly (or wait for a sale to migrate over)
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: fooey on July 02, 2018, 03:36:07 am
@Sorin is there any update that you can provide on a fix or a possible workaround?

Thanks
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Thorden on July 03, 2018, 03:00:10 pm
I have a couple of FGS-223 that has been working ok-ish for a while, but I had to exclude and include them recently on latest FW for Vera Plus. Then a lot of trouble started, seems like it was related to secure inclusion.

Anyway, I submitted a ticket, and the issue was rapidly fixed by Vera support today. Seems there was something with a wrong ID in my Z-Wave chip, legacy from migrating from an earlier controller that messed up secure inclusion. I have migrated from Vera2, Lite and Edge, so that could make sense.

The FGS-223 devices work fine now, except from consumption being zero. Reported that back. I no longer have problems configuring them, lag is a lot less in GUI (still som resend, but not much). Secure inclusion went without any issues.
Now I need to find out how to activate scenes with them, using central scene command class. No clues so far..
 
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lagq
Post by: therealdb on July 03, 2018, 03:17:17 pm
It's not fixed at all.
I'll swap a couple of fgs223 with fgs222.
I had to disable a couple of automations because, well, the delay simply sucks.

I hope they'll fix it ASAP, but we're at 12 months since the first reports and I don't think things will sort out quickly.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Thorden on July 03, 2018, 03:34:00 pm
I am not necessarily saying everything is fixed, just that secure inclusion and basic function seems ok here. Lag is much better too, in fact no lag when using GUI to switch load. Yes, the GUI updating switch status lags a bit, but that isn't important for me. So I don't understand why you say it isn't fixed. For me, seems it is, for now.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: fooey on July 04, 2018, 06:22:17 am
The inclusion process works. It?s included secure by default. Isolated commands via the UI or scenes work (ignoring the delay for a moment).

The issue as far as I understand, if you look within the Luup log, is that the command sent to the device isn?t being encapsulated (?) correctly for secure transmission which means the delay as there are repeated messages sent which you see in the UI as retry. 

As messages are sent in a serial manner, this causes problems where devices (one device multiple times, or multiple number of devices) are switched quickly, or sequentially via a scene means the scene either doesn?t work properly or doesn?t complete.

This appears to be a Fibaro device issue rather than a Vera issue - other controller forums suggest to get around this issue by doing a non-secure inclusion of this device; however Vera doesn?t provide this functionality to do so.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on July 04, 2018, 09:08:21 am
I no longer believe the excuse this is Fibaro's fault.

With HomeSeer a non-secure inclusion for the Fibaro's creates a perfect device.  Works an absolute dream.

With HomeSeer, a secure inclusion for the Fibaro's creates a situation where statuses are not properly recognised - it comes through as UNKNOWN.  So similar confusion with Vera - except HomeSeer doesn't come crashing down to its knees, heck Vera does that even when it's sitting there doing absolutely nothing.  Something isn't quite right though.

SO... upgrade HomeSeer to the latest Z-Wave APIs (beta plugin), which are specifically designed for the latest security standards, and then do a secure inclusion of the Fibaros.  Works a dream, responses recognised correctly.

Likewise Z-Way has no such issues, and it abides by the latest Z-Wave APIs too.

So in my books Vera is the one struggling with the latest APIs, not Fibaro, as gateways using the latest security APIs seem to be fine...........
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AlphaHustle on July 30, 2018, 02:03:03 pm
I think I have come across this problem with my Fibaro Dimmer 2s I take it Vera are still no further along with a fix?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: dotneft on August 16, 2018, 11:28:58 am
Dear Vera Team, do you have any news about the issue?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: guest142329 on August 20, 2018, 01:07:32 pm
I have the same issue, and I bought 10 fibaro modules... quite an investment!!!
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Insto on August 22, 2018, 06:22:18 am
Hi guys - I am joining the club. In fact I had some Aeotec switches that were causing me some similar grief then after wasting tens of hours I asked for an exchange for Fibaro as the FGS-222 work great. I will also raise a ticket - I am left with no other choice than to promptly ask for another refund from my supplier and revert back to some more 222's.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Insto on August 22, 2018, 07:25:34 am
I have logged the issue with Vera and Fibaro. The yanks are still up right now (not like here in AU) so I got a prompt reply: "Our development team is currently working in order to fix this issue. The fix will be available in one of the upcoming releases. At this moment we do not have an ETA for this, but more details to be announced..." blah blah blah.

I don't think they are really working on this. Or is it just me?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on August 22, 2018, 08:29:11 am
One year and a half with this "we're working on this, no ETA" reply.

I had to disable a couple of automations because of this.

I reported this kind of situation to new property.
I won't hold my breath for a quick fix...
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: col8eral on August 28, 2018, 12:14:29 pm
Wished I'd seen this before I bought a double relay. I'm experiencing the same lag......  Takes a good few seconds before I get an on/off Response.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: col8eral on August 28, 2018, 03:07:17 pm
Reported to support. This is the response I received:

Thank you for contacting Vera Home support.

At this moment this is a known issues reported to our development team but there is no ETA when it will be resolved. You can check our release notes from :

https://support.getvera.com/customer/portal/topics/666697-release-notes/articles

Have a nice day!
Title: Flash mode not working (FGS-223)
Post by: Bobone on September 06, 2018, 09:32:21 am
Probably another problem with Vera's implementation?

Have had lengthy and good discussions with Fibaro Support.

Trying to use "Flash Mode"
- works fine with S1 and B button

However, Vera command fails! Both manually and in scenes.

The switch goes on and then IMMEDIATELY goes off.

Params: 15:5, 16:0, 18:20, 20: 2

If parameter 21: 1 is set to 1 (reporting), I can get the device to flash 3-4 times, then it goes off!

Anyone one else had this problem?

Bob
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Andys on September 21, 2018, 05:53:54 pm
Does anybody know if the single switch works reliably?
Thanks
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on September 27, 2018, 04:56:23 am
Vera! When will this MAJOR issue be solved!? This is currently the only feasible fibaro 2x1.5Kw switch available in Europe...
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Almighty on September 27, 2018, 05:05:38 am
I think that nice deadline for Vera could be black friday, since HomeSeeer is probably going to be 50 % off again. I have my old T420s already prepared as VeraPlus replacement if nothing changes  :)
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on September 27, 2018, 05:06:20 am
Vera! When will this MAJOR issue be solved!? This is currently the only feasible fibaro 2x1.5Kw switch available in Europe...

just meh.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Bobone on September 27, 2018, 10:09:07 am
Regarding the Flash Mode issue, I got the following friendly, but uncommitting answers

"The issue is that the device (parent and children devices) communicates with Vera in a secure way so there are several z-wave messages that the device is sending and also Vera is sending several messages to the device(the regular z-wave commands (i.e. turn on/off ) are being encrypted and there are also several authentification messages) and at some point, there are collisions between these z-wave messages and some commands are invalidated.

This issue should be solved in a future firmware update but at the moment I don?t have an ETA and also there is no workaround."

When asked about non-secure mode pairing:

"It?s not possible to pair the device in a non-secure way because the gateway does not have this option implemented so if a z-wave device support secure z-wave command classes it will be paired in a secure way.
We will analyze the possibility of adding this option in the future but for the moment I don?t have an ETA."
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on September 27, 2018, 10:11:32 am
yeah. that's the same response since 1 year and a half. nothing new at all.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Bobone on September 27, 2018, 10:17:30 am
1. Use another controller, such as HomeSeer in trial mode, to add the devices in non-secure mode.  Then do a Z-Wave transfer between the two controllers.  Vera ends up with a COPY of the device - which you are inherited a non-secure inclusion of.  Turn it on and off as much as you like and it happens nice and quick (for Vera anyway), no spinning for 5-20 seconds or scenes going crazy.  I've temporarily got most of my Fibaro's duplicated on my Vera from my HomeSeer setup - purely temporarily for my old HomeKit integration, but it means even with HomeSeer shut down the Vera has non-secure direct access to the devices.  A few things need manually fixing here and there, dimmers work perfectly but double switches need the second channel fixing up, but works a treat.

Hi Tillsy,

Did you ever compare configurations between the vera secure pairing and the HomeSeer migration to vera?
Wouldn't it be possible to change some parameters / variables to get it right with Vera?

Thx,
Bob
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on October 03, 2018, 08:28:03 am
Vera,

please pay attention to this issue. It makes the entire zwava network unstable with 1 or more 223's in the network. If a scene is fired and has trouble with this 223 device of if the 223 device is manually switches (locally) vera has overall lag problems and needs a long time to recover (zwave). Also if I need to turn on an turn off (garage door) with a 223 I get very unresponsive and unreliable communications. Sometimes is ha seconds of delay, most is have >10 seconds up till minutes (!).
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on October 04, 2018, 03:35:44 am
What worries me the most is in this post:
http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,107895.msg420710.html#msg420710

As per Fibaro devices, I would not say this publicly if I wouldn't know and even reported myself for a few these issues, that are already in the queue for development. But this needs to be taken with a grain of salt because, in the R&D process of these devices, we are discovering that not all of these issues are actually on Vera's plate. But even so, we will do our best, and closely collaborate with devices manufacturers, to make sure that these things are sorted. We will update more on this once we get the updates rolling.

Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sorin on October 04, 2018, 04:50:25 am
@Sender, I've brought to the attention of our PM team, your comment and this entire topic. #fingerscrossed
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on October 04, 2018, 06:04:46 am
Sorin, thank you. my fingers are all tied up
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on October 05, 2018, 02:22:10 am
for whats worth. Getting lots of this:
10/5/2018, 8:17:53 AM   warning device:990 has duplicate state id 14 for variables: LastArr , MeterScale   
10/5/2018, 8:17:53 AM   warning device:990 has duplicate state id 13 for variables: LastNnu , MeterType
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on October 08, 2018, 10:33:57 am
Think this will take a long time...

Vera support:
We currently cannot make any promises related to this Device, device integration is handled by our Project Managers based on the actual priority list. Our team is looking to improve the overall performance and stability of our services/products alongside with device integration and other fixes.
That?s why we do not have an exact date or estimated date for now.

Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: eyalp on October 08, 2018, 04:14:23 pm
I do hope melih reads this..

This thread is one of the reasons I am considering leaving Vera (Others already have left because of this). Fibaro are a very popular lightning controller and using the with Vera is just a nightmare and the fact that this hasn't been fixed for well over a year now is really something I'd like to see changed with the new company leadership. It's great to have new and stylish UIs but the basic components need to work flawlessly first.

Really hope to get your response on this.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on October 11, 2018, 02:29:49 am
@Melih,

223 support is a must have. this device (devices) brings my whole zwave network to delay. If the device is touched locally, it sends a status update and the zwave network is then occupied. Having delays in controlling the 223 of about 2-15 seconds is unacceptable. Since I am not alone (many times read topic and many replies) and also stating from Vera support it is on the PM agenda, I urge Vera to come with a solution.

This is the culprit of my entire unstable zwave network.

Please respond.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on October 11, 2018, 02:36:52 am
I already sent this to melih as an evidence of how bad we users were treated regarding new device support. It replied that this will change with the new course - I'll believe it when I'll see it.

I can confirm I see the same behavior and that it's really frustrating. I disabled all the automation involving fgs 223s, and I'm back to 1800 at the moment.
In moment like this, I really wish I'd chosen another controller, but that's another story - WAF is very low nowadays.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on November 06, 2018, 09:55:51 am
@Vera, @melih, what about the support for this device? Will it ever be!?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: sefocuher on November 06, 2018, 03:03:44 pm
Hi
I have also the delay problem when i used scene. I have contact support and he make a delay of 1s betwin the different command i understand if you have a lot of module the delay can be too mutch.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: RubbrDug on November 10, 2018, 11:20:35 am
I have this problem since October 2016, so now it's more than two years. This is so annoying to me that I stopped automating my house any further. I just use it as it is for now and will propably leave to another technology when it comes along.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Almighty on November 10, 2018, 12:36:38 pm
I just switched to HomeSeer and I must say that I should have done it long time ago :-)
+Instant inclusion/exclusion of nodes. (When I was removing Fibaro nodes from Vera, it took 5 attempts on average for FGS-222 units)
+No lag of FGS-223 (even in secure mode), scene control support.
+No random freezing of Danfoss LC-13 on wake up.
+Although I hate Visual Basic, scripting is light years better than on Vera  (Visual Studio, break points, watches...)

-No scene support for FGD-212 (just one action globally for all dimmers)
-Maybe little more pricey (but well time invested in Vera over past three years wasn't for free either)
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on November 11, 2018, 01:32:37 am
This is becoming so annoying. I'm (again) at a point that I'm evaluating to switch controller to have this device supported. It's very unfortunate that the most popular device in this category in Europe is not properly supported two years after being released.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Bobone on November 11, 2018, 02:30:15 pm
The silence is really damaging to Vera's brand at this moment.

At this point we want to know two things:
1) Is there an ambition to fix this issue?
2) A timeplan

It's crisis "ABC" to communicate. Good news or bad news does not matter.
No news is far worse for a brand as it undermines trust. Like in: "Are there other issues that I should consider before buying/expanding Vera?"...
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on November 11, 2018, 02:36:11 pm
Some update... I am not getting very happy from.

I received yesterday via support:
When it comes to those Fibaro Models it?s very hard to manage it properly due to the device?s nature as well. We can attempt to fix this by changing the current settings of the device into something different, however, we cannot guarantee that this will work as expected.

Our team is working on all integrations step by step, depending on each device and each situation the process could be short of long, even if it seems as an excuse, it?s actually very hard to integrate a device based on all the requirements from each involved part.

Please Enable Tech Support on your controller and provide us with the Generated String. Let us know if we can test the network and and also let us know if we can test any of the Fibaro devices that you have (FGS223).

I responded:
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my email.
I appreciate the effort Vera is putting in device support. But to be honest the output is not very promising.
I do not want to be the live testing device. I have done this many times in the past as you may probably know and that did never work out well in the end. The original issue was mostly solved but other more hard ones were then introduced.
This device (223) is 50 euro. I am sure that if you introduce this to your existing zwave network you will experience the same as all of us.
As said before. This is the only module one can buy in Europe. All others are out of production.
As far as I know and read all over is that this device works well with many other zwave controllers.
I hope for a quick solution.
I stopped looking for a Vera alternative but I started up agian.


Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Bobone on November 11, 2018, 04:39:39 pm
Hi Sender,

At what level do they mean to apply this?:
Quote
We can attempt to fix this by changing the current settings of the device into something different.
- standard settings that everyone can access?
- som deeper level?

My understanding was that everyone, including Vera, was well behond changing the ?standard? group of settings....
Or?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on November 12, 2018, 03:12:38 am
I was hit by this problem, I added a Fibaro single switch to the network and my projector screen controlled by a Fibaro Roller Shutter 2 started to lag. I send down and it started to go down than after a second it went back up without me even sending that up command. I ended up factory reseting the Vera and both fibaro modules and it worked. But I only have 3 modules right now, One single switch one fibaro dimmer 2 and the Roller shutter, but I have 15 more Fibaro switches being put up in the next coming days. I cant factory reset all that if problems happens.

Here in Sweden Fibaro and Qubino are the only two manufacturers available over counter, I suspect its same for rest of EU. If I run into this problem again I will use my return right and return the Vera. Hints to Vera, this will hit you really bad financially (probably already have) if you dont resolve it ASAP.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on November 12, 2018, 08:56:58 am
Here in Sweden Fibaro and Qubino are the only two manufacturers available over counter, I suspect its same for rest of EU.

Correct. Europe is a single market from a Zwave point of view (well, not only from this point view, but you get the point) and the only two devices available on the market (Vera, Qubino) both have issues. I'll wait until the new year and then start searching for a new controller.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on November 12, 2018, 09:04:27 am
It seems that vera is not aware of this and the best way to get them is to send an email to

Support@getvera.com

The more they know  about this issue the better.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on November 12, 2018, 09:06:23 am
Here in Sweden Fibaro and Qubino are the only two manufacturers available over counter, I suspect its same for rest of EU.

Correct. Europe is a single market from a Zwave point of view (well, not only from this point view, but you get the point) and the only two devices available on the market (Vera, Qubino) both have issues. I'll wait until the new year and then start searching for a new controller.

If you live in EU you have 2 year warranty so you are covered, so dont buy a new one before you get your money back for your Vera from your reseller
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on November 12, 2018, 09:11:36 am
It seems that vera is not aware of this and the best way to get them is to send an email to

Support@getvera.com

The more they know  about this issue the better.

If I run into this again, I will
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Thorden on November 12, 2018, 09:19:14 am
It seems that vera is not aware of this and the best way to get them is to send an email to

Support@getvera.com

The more they know  about this issue the better.

Sorry, but they will just have you run around excluding and re-including devices until you get tired and give up. They are not addressing the real issue.

Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on November 12, 2018, 09:21:46 am
It seems that vera is not aware of this and the best way to get them is to send an email to

Support@getvera.com

The more they know  about this issue the better.

Sorry, but they will just have you run around excluding and re-including devices until you get tired and give up. They are not addressing the real issue.

Do not log a case, but make them aware of the issue.

They do not actively read this forum in terms of product support.  Make them know about this issue other than this forum.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Bobone on November 12, 2018, 10:27:51 am
How about their Facebook site?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on November 13, 2018, 01:52:50 am
I did it. I got the same reply as in the past. No ETA, bla bla.

I fear we're at least 6-9 months away to any real hope.

Time for a change.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on November 13, 2018, 03:19:47 am
I did it. I got the same reply as in the past. No ETA, bla bla.

I fear we're at least 6-9 months away to any real hope.

Time for a change.

Unbelievable they dont take this more seriously. I guess the US market is big enough so they dont care about EU
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sorin on November 13, 2018, 03:48:36 am
It seems that vera is not aware of this and the best way to get them is to send an email to

Support@getvera.com

The more they know  about this issue the better.

Sorry, but they will just have you run around excluding and re-including devices until you get tired and give up. They are not addressing the real issue.

Do not log a case, but make them aware of the issue.

They do not actively read this forum in terms of product support.  Make them know about this issue other than this forum.

I really feel everyone's frustration and we'd love to turn this around as fast as we can.

I do not condone going guerilla on this matter. But yes, everyone that is having this issue will be better logging a ticket with our Customer Care team.

This is not a bad intention or lack of will o Vera's behalf, it's just the fact that fully supporting these devices is not as easy as you might think. The full support of these devices is tied to S2 framework implementation. A process that is ongoing, and mandatory by Z-wave certification. So it will surely be done and we're full steam ahead on it, alongside ALL other projects mentioned in the other threads.


They do not actively read this forum in terms of product support.  Make them know about this issue other than this forum.

I'm not sure how to put this lightly, but this is, in fact, the main purpose of this forum, and saying that "they do not actively read this forum" are not light words.
I can guarantee you that we understand the extent of this matter and it's treated accordingly.

It's not often when the chairman of a big company and an entire consortium of companies goes public and takes matters in his own hands, but if it does that, it certainly must mean something. It means that this crowd and their opinions are critical and honest opinions about the current state of the products and he will deliver, in order to turn this around.

we will address every single problem!
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Bobone on November 13, 2018, 04:11:29 am
The silence is really damaging to Vera's brand at this moment.

At this point we want to know two things:
1) Is there an ambition to fix this issue?
2) A timeplan

It's "crisis ABC" to communicate. Good news or bad news does not matter.
No news is far worse for a brand as it undermines trust. Like in: "Are there other issues that I should consider before buying/expanding Vera?"...

Some progress in the communication.... Good Vera!

1) I guess we got some sort of vague answer to 1) above. NOT an ambition to hotfix this particular issue, but the delivery of S2 in some general release... Do note however that device suppliers were forced at the beginning of 2017 to have implemented S2. I know of no software development project with specs that takes this long time. Have they started?
2) No timeplan. Not even a hint...

Obviously pressure is not high enough!
Is Vera S2 non-compliant across the board?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sorin on November 13, 2018, 04:21:36 am
New hardware will indeed have to be compliant to S2, the existing hardware is based on the pre-S2 requirements and is compliant to those.
Hotfixing has been analyzed but it's not the solution, as it will break other compatibilities. The perfect solution for this is still being under scrutiny.

The timeplan is tied to the same time frames mentioned by Melih.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Bobone on November 13, 2018, 04:26:52 am
The timeplan is tied to the same time frames mentioned by Melih.
Thank you Sorin,
But, could you please repeat the time plan?
Best regards,
Bob
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on November 13, 2018, 08:42:21 am
As a new customer I can tell you I will use my return right the minute I step into this poop  (Already have but didnt know about this and got it working by doing factory reset on everything). And i'm probably not alone. First impressions last. I'm also an engineer by trade, normal consumers will be even less forgiving. You should put all possible resources at this until solved.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on November 14, 2018, 02:21:25 am
The timeplan is tied to the same time frames mentioned by Melih.

As I said, I was expecting this. I spent too much time working in IT, that I can feel the pain from the signs.

To be honest, you should remove this device from your compatibility list, since it is not.

I don't know if I'll have the patience to wait more. Waiting 1 minute for lights to turn on or having them turn on again when switching off is quite frustrating. Hearing my wife telling me to spend money on working things and not prototypes adds insult to injury.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Thorden on November 14, 2018, 02:53:05 am

I do not condone going guerilla on this matter. But yes, everyone that is having this issue will be better logging a ticket with our Customer Care team.


Ok, and then what?
Start working with the support people pretending they can do anything about it, and wasting everyones time? Or do you have a different kind of process for these devices?
The problem is that you don't support the device, and it shouldn't be on your supported devices list at all.

I have only one of them installed, five more on the shelf waiting for a solution. They have been there for more than a year, I purchased them because they were supposed to be supported devices. The one I have installed is creating a lot of problems and delays. It frequently fails to switch on or off completely. I have logged a ticket, but got tired of support having me doing endless exclusions and inclusions to see if it made a difference. It is a total waste of time, and we all know it. You can't continue this way, it is a joke.

Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sorin on November 14, 2018, 09:35:08 am
Thorden,

Support people are doing everything they can, given the current state of software integration of these devices, and I bet they are willing to do more, and they constantly do that in other situations.

On the compatibility page, these devices are already flagged with Known issues.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on November 14, 2018, 09:39:37 am
Sorin,

We already know these issue are there for about 2 years. I appreciate that you are doing everything you can. But as a customer and user having these major issues this is never enough.

It takes all the power and juice out of my HA system. As well locally as in automation.

Sorry to swear but it just sucks this way.

The only one that can solve it for us. Is vera.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sorin on November 14, 2018, 09:50:43 am
I'm totally on your side Sender, even tho you are one of the most vocal users on this forum. We actually value critical opinions.

As a Vera and Fibaro user myself and also being part of the Customer Care team for a couple of years in the front line, this is not easy on anyone.

I can only underline what has been already said by some of the importance voices here at Vera -  that our best intention is to have EVERYTHING sorted.
I know the age of these requests, as I've been here when they started  8) but remember that it has been a transition in the meantime that came with new forces, new ideas, and most important, with heavy community return in focus.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Bobone on November 15, 2018, 05:26:31 pm
Sorin,

Regarding the timeline...
You made an indirect reference to melih?s timeplan.
It is unknown to me.

Could you please repeat approximately when you plan to release a solution to our problems.
Are you currently beta testing?
Many thanks,
Bob
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sorin on November 16, 2018, 07:24:02 am
Bobone,

I can tell you that we are already a few sprints into the development cycle, but I can't be more specific than that. Because of the fact that there is A LOT happening and things are things are yet to be settled, I cannot personally give you more than what Melih gave you, although I'd love to do that.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Domoworking on November 20, 2018, 04:08:39 pm
I was about to buy a couple of these FGS223, but it is probably better to wait...
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: shady.hamilton on November 22, 2018, 03:24:54 am
I have the same problem with the 212, the support told me that there is no ETA for the fix..... I can see it is an old problem..... isn't it strange that such an important device in the Zwave space stay all this time without a fix??!!

how can we push them to do a better job on this?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on November 22, 2018, 03:44:45 am
I have the same problem with the 212, the support told me that there is no ETA for the fix..... I can see it is an old problem..... isn't it strange that such an important device in the Zwave space stay all this time without a fix??!!

how can we push them to do a better job on this?

It's like pushing a ghost  :-\
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on November 22, 2018, 08:25:44 am
how can we push them to do a better job on this?

you can't. we're approaching two years of pushing and the results are, well, non-existent. we started with a not supported device at all, and now we're at a device supported but not really implemented. at this pace, maybe we'll have it integrated before Fibaro will ship a new version. and the story will restart from the beginning #truestory #beentherealready
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Thorden on December 01, 2018, 11:17:45 am
I just tried one more time to fiddle around with the FGS-223, but gave it up.

Then went out and got a Qubino Flush 2 Relay. With temp sensor. Wow, what a difference!
It includes fast, painless and securely with no hickups at all. Used Generic Z-wave device, bad experience with doing Qubino dimmer with Vera built in template.

Switching the loads of the Qubino, either using GUI or physical switches is completely instant and reliable. All delays are gone after deleting the Fibaro switches from the system.

So, why does this work perfectly well with Qubino, but not with Fibaro? Is it all Veras fault with poor implementation of the FGS-223, or is there something else here?

Anyway, I recommend you to switch to Qubino units if you still struggle with the FGS-223. It was a great relief.


Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on December 01, 2018, 11:20:30 am
Yes still struggling...

What is the exact model number of the qubinos? Just standard inclusion or any other specials?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Thorden on December 01, 2018, 11:39:39 am
Yes still struggling...

What is the exact model number of the qubinos? Just standard inclusion or any other specials?

Model numbers vary with frequency, check here:
http://qubino.com/products/flush-2-relays/

See attachements for mine.

I did standard inclusion (is there another way?)
1) Put Vera Plus in inclusion mode (generic Z-wave device)
2) Connect power to Qubino (close to the Vera, less than one meter)
3) Voila - all good


Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on December 01, 2018, 01:11:00 pm
Thank you will give it a thought

Edit: just ordered 3 times the ZMNHBD1
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Bobone on December 01, 2018, 04:16:37 pm
Let's not give Vera a too easy way out.

Not addressing (succeeeding?) to fix what all major hub manufacturers have is simply not impressive...
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Thorden on December 01, 2018, 04:24:41 pm
I find it way more important to make my system reliable than to waste my time on pointing fingers at Vera. It is a waste of time.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Bobone on December 01, 2018, 04:36:59 pm
I have no option. I need to use the FGS-223.
>:(
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Thorden on December 01, 2018, 06:23:14 pm
Why? I have a bunch of them on the shelf, using them is the worst option. It messes up everything.
I figure there are three options
1) migrate away from Vera
2) migrate away from Fibaro
3) Keep wishing Vera will fix it eventually

Your choice. I just discovered an easy way out. Will be selling my Fibaro units online, easy fix.

Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Bobone on December 02, 2018, 03:25:20 pm
Flash mode
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: shady.hamilton on December 05, 2018, 02:40:15 am
Ok, It is the conspiracy theory but if you have another explanation please let's have it...

I am a Vera user since 5 or 6 years now, i switched for a year or so to Fibaro HC2, but because they have bad 3rd party integration especially NEST i switched back to Vera.

Fibaro stopped NEST plugin for two years apparently because they are working on their own thermostat, though they don't admit it, for two years they keep saying we are working on it and that Nest changed something that is why they are not able to recreate the plugin although all other platforms are working fine with Nest thermostat.....  Does that remind you of something?

there is nothing, NOTHING that can take 2 years of development for fixing a bug...... so if I am Vera, why should I support a rival?

I could be wrong, but can anybody come with a "Sane and logical" reason why a small bug like this is not being fixed? 2 years!!!! 

If the 212 is not working with other platforms, or other dimmers like Quobino are not working fine with Vera, then it might Fibaro is defected or Vera is defected, but that is not the case....

make sense, or i am just another frustrated user trying to come up with an explanation.....
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on December 07, 2018, 03:37:10 am
Moved to Qubino, problem solved. Obviously, if you take the culprit out this is solved.

Only thing left is the fibaro zwave motion sensor 2 which is not always very relibale now...

Thanks Thorden for the out-of-the-box solution for an issue with a Fibaro device :-)
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: shady.hamilton on January 02, 2019, 03:30:40 am
moving to Qubino or any other brand is not a solution, it is just letting VERA get away with it and force us not to use Fibaro. most people have Fibaro dimmers, so what can we do with them now? through them away?

why Vera is so quite about this? are they happy that their plan of blocking a rival company in a bad way is working?

I hope somebody from Vera will comment, and not something like " we have been working on it since two years but still we could not find a solution"
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 15, 2019, 08:59:32 am
I think I get hit by this now.
I have a double switch 2 in my system now. And if any commands are sent to the double 2 from the controller everything is halted for a while.

For example I have a lua script sequence of lights that I turn off and then I let the projector screen go down (Using a Fibaro Roller shutter 2). Without the Switch 2 in the sequence the projector screen is completely in sync with the lights, the lights and the screen goes down at the same time.

If I have the Double switch two in the sequence the projector screen is delayed several seconds. We talk like 30 seconds sometimes.

Funny thing is I have a Dimmer 2 in the same sequence, but it does not behave like this.

/Thanks
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on January 15, 2019, 09:22:18 am
welcome to the club. It is completely random. And yes, only FGS 223 (Fibaro Double Switch 2) is affected.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 15, 2019, 10:14:52 am
welcome to the club. It is completely random. And yes, only FGS 223 (Fibaro Double Switch 2) is affected.

Thanks for reply.
Whats the best replacement for Vera Plus? I use the App, LUA scripting, web interface, and I would like google home in the future.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on January 15, 2019, 10:42:47 am
I'm still on Vera. I find it very annoying, as you said, but I'm waiting for a resolution. They promised to fix it in the near future, and it's 2 years since I deployed them. Right now I've invested a lot of time into the Vera, so I'm sticking with it. If they don't fix it in the near future, I'll change my unit. I'll probably go with home assistand + open luup + zwave key, but who knows.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 15, 2019, 02:02:22 pm
I'm still on Vera. I find it very annoying, as you said, but I'm waiting for a resolution. They promised to fix it in the near future, and it's 2 years since I deployed them. Right now I've invested a lot of time into the Vera, so I'm sticking with it. If they don't fix it in the near future, I'll change my unit. I'll probably go with home assistand + open luup + zwave key, but who knows.

You shouldn't wait that long, you should just return the unit, Vera needs financial loss so they get their head out of their ass. This in unbelievable bad customer care.

Anyway, here I replicate the error. As you can see at 0:55 minute its very slow right  after I send the command to the Double switch, and it can be alot slower than this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jjp2DVLXK6Q
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 15, 2019, 05:50:55 pm
Also, when playing a scene which includes a Double Switch 2 its a huuuuge delay for whatever poor bastard module that get its command after the double switch. :/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-kcY9_Dhcg

edit: You can see the light in the kitchen to the left (Double Switch 2) and the light in the living room (Dimmer 2) perfectly sync. Than we get a huge delay on the Roller Shutter 2 controlling the screen
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sorin on January 16, 2019, 07:47:51 am
This in unbelievable bad customer care.

Just chiming in. Customer Care is a very broad term and I can assure you they'll do their best in getting issues reported and responded as fast as possible. SLA's responding time has been reduced from the 48 hours to 24, and now to just tens of minutes, and resolution time is no more than a few days.

Customer Care requests come from all over the place ranging from a direct phone call to various social media platforms and sometimes even reddit or youtube comments. Believe it or not WE ARE monitoring all of this and it's very rare when some cases slip through.

Many things changed from the initial report to the better, but I'm not sure exactly how will these devices be sorted out decisional speaking.

I'm sorry for the people having this issue but this is now a matter of business decision, and development, a thing that is not really in the hands of the Customer Care team.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on January 16, 2019, 07:54:25 am
This in unbelievable bad customer care.

Just chiming in. Customer Care is a very broad term and I can assure you they'll do their best in getting issues reported and responded as fast as possible. SLA's responding time has been reduced from the 48 hours to 24, and now to just tens of minutes, and resolution time is no more than a few days.

Customer Care requests come from all over the place ranging from a direct phone call to various social media platforms and sometimes even reddit or youtube comments. Believe it or not WE ARE monitoring all of this and it's very rare when some cases slip through.

Many things changed from the initial report to the better, but I'm not sure exactly how will these devices be sorted out decisional speaking.

I'm sorry for the people having this issue but this is now a matter of business decision, and development, a thing that is not really in the hands of the Customer Care team.

Thanks.


<blablabla>

Sorry if this is rude.

Hi Sorin, thank you for responding. But according to my opinion this issue is one of the longest outstanding ones last years. I have a lot of "customer care" mails with promises. But they were all vague promises and never this problem was solved. I can't believe what you are saying and how you are saying it. We are waiting for months now as customers and users for ANY UPDATE.

Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sorin on January 16, 2019, 08:06:07 am
in this reply, I'm only backing Customer Care team and their abilities. They would only serve you with what they have :) They are not the ones that should develop an integration.
Even they and I, are eagerly waiting for the upper decisions to get this train rolling.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on January 16, 2019, 09:04:33 am
I'm sorry for the people having this issue but this is now a matter of business decision, and development, a thing that is not really in the hands of the Customer Care team.

Are you saying that the most sold switch in Europe will not be properly supported? After 2 years, that's depressing at best.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 16, 2019, 09:11:23 am
This in unbelievable bad customer care.

Just chiming in. Customer Care is a very broad term and I can assure you they'll do their best in getting issues reported and responded as fast as possible. SLA's responding time has been reduced from the 48 hours to 24, and now to just tens of minutes, and resolution time is no more than a few days.

Customer Care requests come from all over the place ranging from a direct phone call to various social media platforms and sometimes even reddit or youtube comments. Believe it or not WE ARE monitoring all of this and it's very rare when some cases slip through.

Many things changed from the initial report to the better, but I'm not sure exactly how will these devices be sorted out decisional speaking.

I'm sorry for the people having this issue but this is now a matter of business decision, and development, a thing that is not really in the hands of the Customer Care team.

Thanks.

When I say customer care, I do not mean the customer care team, I mean Vera as a product company. Its completely unacceptable to let us hanging like this, Fibaro Double Switch 2 is by far the most common Switch in the EU.

We need to spread the word so that not more people buy into this company, I will for example post this at my Swedish home automation Facebook group with 32k members, you guys should do the same. Vera needs to feel financial loss so that they fix this.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sorin on January 16, 2019, 09:17:12 am
I'm sorry for the people having this issue but this is now a matter of business decision, and development, a thing that is not really in the hands of the Customer Care team.

Are you saying that the most sold switch in Europe will not be properly supported? After 2 years, that's depressing at best.

I'm not saying that, you're putting words in my mouth. :) - I cannot emphasize enough the importance of compatibility with the most common devices, and I did that everytime I could, internally. I'm just waiting, same as you, for the things to start moving with the new management, and I'm confident they will. As I mentioned before, I have a few of these devices myself which are currently shelved.

This in unbelievable bad customer care.

Just chiming in. Customer Care is a very broad term and I can assure you they'll do their best in getting issues reported and responded as fast as possible. SLA's responding time has been reduced from the 48 hours to 24, and now to just tens of minutes, and resolution time is no more than a few days.

Customer Care requests come from all over the place ranging from a direct phone call to various social media platforms and sometimes even reddit or youtube comments. Believe it or not WE ARE monitoring all of this and it's very rare when some cases slip through.

Many things changed from the initial report to the better, but I'm not sure exactly how will these devices be sorted out decisional speaking.

I'm sorry for the people having this issue but this is now a matter of business decision, and development, a thing that is not really in the hands of the Customer Care team.

Thanks.

When I say customer care, I do not mean the customer care team, I mean Vera as a product company. Its completely unacceptable to let us hanging like this, Fibaro Double Switch 2 is by far the most common Switch in the EU.

We need to spread the word so that not more people buy into this company, I will for example post this at my Swedish home automation Facebook group with 32k members, you guys should do the same. Vera needs to feel financial loss so that they fix this.

Anders, I understand your frustration alongside everyone in this topic and I apologize for what it's worth.
We've always been an open community in terms of the amount of moderation we're doing as we value our customer's opinion, despite the fact that it might hurt the business.

And I value your opinion as well, but an instigative call to arms like your cannot be posted here. Out of courtesy, I'd kindly ask you to revise your post.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 16, 2019, 09:20:22 am
Also if you guys live in the EU you have two year warranty on the product by EU law. We should all return the unit which could help speed this up.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 16, 2019, 09:21:40 am
And I value your opinion as well, but an instigative call to arms like your cannot be posted here. Out of courtesy, I'd kindly ask you to revise your post.

Please focus on fixing the problem.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on January 16, 2019, 09:26:41 am
Forget it, this will never be fixed.

1. buy a qubino flush 2 relay
2. get rid of vera
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on January 16, 2019, 09:34:16 am
I'm not saying that, you're putting words in my mouth. :)

Sorry Sorin, I read it again and it wasn't my intention to misrepresent your words. At the first reading it seems that you'll not support it at all, then I realized you're speaking on behalf of your team, not from the development one.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on January 16, 2019, 09:35:27 am
Forget it, this will never be fixed.

I fear the same. Since I have more than 20 Fibaros, I'll probably swap my hub when it'll die. It'll cost less than swap all my switches.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Catman on January 16, 2019, 10:09:43 am
This in unbelievable bad customer care.

Just chiming in. Customer Care is a very broad term and I can assure you they'll do their best in getting issues reported and responded as fast as possible. SLA's responding time has been reduced from the 48 hours to 24, and now to just tens of minutes, and resolution time is no more than a few days.

Thanks.

So when we raise a ticket, how soon should we expect a response?

Current ticket I had open was 26 hours before the *initial* response which was the generic request to enable tech support.

The next contact I had was 7.5 days later and 5+ days after my last update to the ticket.....

C
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sorin on January 16, 2019, 10:23:00 am
It depends on the issue type, the initial pick up can range anywhere from a few minutes up to 24 hours. Max time to resolution can be indeed up to 7 days depending on some factors like difficulty, the number of exposed issues, if it involves an escalation or not, etc.

There are a few automated mechanisms which dictate the priority of the cases, but they are always backed up by the human factor.

But if something is burning, someone could always give me a PM or a mention and I will surely follow up.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Catman on January 16, 2019, 10:27:51 am
It depends on the issue type, the initial pick up can range anywhere from a few minutes up to 24 hours. Max time to resolution can be indeed up to 7 days depending on some factors like difficulty, the number of exposed issues, if it involves an escalation or not, etc.

There are a few automated mechanisms which dictate the priority of the cases, but they are always backed up by the human factor.

But if something is burning, someone could always give me a PM or a mention and I will surely follow up.

Thanks, I'll remember that for future reference.

FWIW I don't think this was resolved yet. I'm really not having a pop, but I don't think your claims are backed by data (yet)

Cheers

C
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sorin on January 16, 2019, 10:36:15 am
If you shoot me a PM with your credentials, I can look it up for you and prioritize this.
There are exceptions but the guys are trying to keep up the best they can.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on January 16, 2019, 10:37:37 am
If you shoot me a PM with your credentials, I can look it up for you and prioritize this.
There are exceptions but the guys are trying to keep up the best they can.

the best is the least you can do
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Catman on January 16, 2019, 10:51:59 am
If you shoot me a PM with your credentials, I can look it up for you and prioritize this.
There are exceptions but the guys are trying to keep up the best they can.
I appreciate the offer.  I'll hold off if you don't mind as the testing is on me (in and out of the geofence) So it *might* be resolved. But it might not.  We can't tell yet.

Cheers

C
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: svaleb on January 16, 2019, 01:13:08 pm
I dont want to hijack the tread,
but I suspect it is she same problem with this device.

http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,52628.msg354998.html#msg354998

The Fibaro radiator thermostat

Is that correct Sorin ?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: shady.hamilton on January 17, 2019, 04:14:15 am
By now i can only believe that it is a planned business decision, you think Vera didn't read all these boards and messages, for me it is simply Vera is trying to block Fibaro business......blocking a competitor.

it will remain like this for me until somebody from Vera fix it, or give a logical explanation (that respect our intelligence) to why they 1- didn't fix this very important issue for two years 2- why all other gateways are able to work with Fibaro and don't have this problem
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on January 17, 2019, 04:33:18 am
the problem is the way this device is implemented. AFAIK, all other hubs had problems when it was first launched, but they managed to adapt to this device and now they're OK.

the problem is that this device is registered as secure, but it also send messages in unsecured way. this confuses the LUUP engine, that tries to send them again - and again - eventually taking note that the message is received. In reality, the device turns itself ON as soon as the first message is sent, but the LUUP engine try to resend them anyway, causing a Zwave queue to grow, system to become slow, and scenes to be spotty - at best.

Being a system engineer myself, it's not that difficult to fix it. It takes probably more time to handle all the tickets we sent to them thant to fix it. It's more a business - or political - decision to not support this device, since it'is not following the standard and it's the only device on the market doing that implementation. but it's also the most sold device in Europe, so MiOS is screwing its user base, as you can easily see from this thread.

Again, I hope things will change in the future, otherwise I'll go out and find a new hub in the near future, because I invested more in my Fibaro devices than in Vera, and it's easier for me to start from scratch from an automation point of view, now that I know what I really want and programming is not hard for me, than swap all the devices buried into my electric system.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 17, 2019, 07:16:43 am
I have opened a case with my supplier to return the Vera, he recommend me to switch to the Athom Homey, would that be a good replacement for the Vera? I use scripting,  scenes, the android app and I would love google home integration although thats just a plus.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: shady.hamilton on January 17, 2019, 07:43:00 am
I moved back to Fibaro, they are bad in 3rd party integration (Nest, Harmony, Hue.....) but Zwave is not a problem with them
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on January 17, 2019, 07:55:51 am
I?m not committed to anything right now, but the plan is to choose something that works with homeaasistant or openluup, and use the controller just to send zwave commands.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 18, 2019, 04:07:16 am
I will create a account at athom and ask some questions. Really sad I cant stay with Vera, really liked the Plus.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Bobone on January 20, 2019, 05:31:11 am
I moved the switch to a HomeSeer solution.
The device works perfectly. Also in "flash mode" which was my reason for buying the switch.

Will now test moving my whole Z-network away from Vera.
Sad. Many advantages with Vera, but the lack of customer focus despite the massive input from this forum is an issue.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Tillsy on January 20, 2019, 06:24:00 am
You poor bastards - I can't believe this is still an epic train wreck.  I'm only here because I received a PM asking about this so thought I would pop back into this thread - I had completely forgotten about the disaster that is Vera, holy moly it's coming back to me now wow... just wow.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: sundreamer on January 20, 2019, 07:43:20 am
I also need an aswer.... it's quite one year.

need to refresh my whole walls and I can create spots for those controlers...

it's lot of work and I am not ready to wait for 10 month more...

I asked them to give a correct answer and time to fix this but I guess it's useless
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Thorden on January 20, 2019, 04:13:15 pm
If you haven't purchased them yet, why not just get Qubinos instead? They work great, and to be honest they give a better impression than Fibaro. I have loads of Fibaro, had them since the early days, but all new devices are Qubino now.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 22, 2019, 02:47:02 am
You poor bastards - I can't believe this is still an epic train wreck.  I'm only here because I received a PM asking about this so thought I would pop back into this thread - I had completely forgotten about the disaster that is Vera, holy moly it's coming back to me now wow... just wow.

What controller did you end up with? I have trouble finding one that will have the features I use. For example I look into Athom Homey controller, but it seems to have very limited support for Fibaro Roller Shutter 2, Vera have full support for all of its features. 

Its so sad. Vera has a nice feature set.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 22, 2019, 03:08:15 am
Got this from support, feels like a standard response they send to everybody :D


Quote
Hello Anders,

I have checked your controller, and besides the known issue caused by the Fibaro Double Switch 2 FGS-223, everything else seems to be in order.
You can be assured that we are working on fixing the source of the delays caused by this device in your system.

Please let me know if there is anything else that I can help you with.

Regards,
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on January 22, 2019, 08:42:10 am
Got this from support, feels like a standard response they send to everybody :D

well, this is the first time they say they're working on a fix. I won't hold my breath, because maybe it's just Sorin that reported it to them :)
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 23, 2019, 04:28:15 pm
Ok so I have been looking at the Athom Homey to replace my Vera, and while the product seems nice their Fibaro support is not very solid :/
So I will now look at Animus.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: shady.hamilton on January 23, 2019, 09:56:34 pm
Ok so I have been looking at the Athom Homey to replace my Vera, and while the product seems nice their Fibaro support is not very solid :/
So I will now look at Animus.

If you don't have a lot of 3rd party devices (not zwave devices like nest, harmony, hue...) Why don't you check Fibaro Home centre? Vera is better in this domain but fibaro is better with zwave especially with their products :)
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 24, 2019, 02:18:25 am
Ok so I have been looking at the Athom Homey to replace my Vera, and while the product seems nice their Fibaro support is not very solid :/
So I will now look at Animus.

If you don't have a lot of 3rd party devices (not zwave devices like nest, harmony, hue...) Why don't you check Fibaro Home centre? Vera is better in this domain but fibaro is better with zwave especially with their products :)

I don't want to lock myself to z wave IKEA and Hue uses ZigBee for example might something I want to get in the future. Also I need scripting and the Fibaro controller with scripting is insanely priced.

Thirdly, I do not like how locked down they are, they are the Apple of HA and I stay away from Apple for the same reasons.

But it might end up with that if I can't find a better controller
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on January 24, 2019, 02:38:34 am
Have a look at hass.io, it's very flexible. For now not very intuitive but you can easily import Vera devices. Adding an extra zwave usb dongle (OZW) for non supported vera-supported devices and you can (re)place some logic (or all) to hass.

I would have hoped Ezlo had bought hass and worked on rock solid zwave device support there.

One big downside: everything has to be modeled in the UI via "CLI" (config files). But they said they'r working on it. that's a hassle :-)
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 24, 2019, 06:08:31 am
Have a look at hass.io, it's very flexible. For now not very intuitive but you can easily import Vera devices. Adding an extra zwave usb dongle (OZW) for non supported vera-supported devices and you can (re)place some logic (or all) to hass.

I would have hoped Ezlo had bought hass and worked on rock solid zwave device support there.

One big downside: everything has to be modeled in the UI via "CLI" (config files). But they said they'r working on it. that's a hassle :-)

I'm not really interested in a dongle/software solution, but if its the only way. What do you mean with import Vera devices? You can migrate the devices from Vera so you do not need to repair them etc?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on January 24, 2019, 07:14:25 am
Vera, is also a controller with a zwave radio (dongle).

I mean this:
https://www.home-assistant.io/components/vera/

and then all your vera devices (zwave an non zwave) become available in hass and from there you can do all logic and control.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 24, 2019, 07:41:39 am
Vera, is also a controller with a zwave radio (dongle).

I mean this:
https://www.home-assistant.io/components/vera/

and then all your vera devices (zwave an non zwave) become available in hass and from there you can do all logic and control.

But I'm not going to keep the Vera. it will be returned on the warranty. Plus using two controllers seems really like a sub par solution.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 24, 2019, 07:54:44 am
Just saw this, I would say its close to fraud. They list it has compatible. And nowhere do they tell how bad Vera works with the device.
Sure they have that yellow warning badge. But it doesnt tell that any sub subsequent command to any other device will be severely delayed

(https://i.imgur.com/zXFKOMo.png)

Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Bobone on January 24, 2019, 09:45:11 am
Haha!!

https://web.archive.org/web/20180228102840/https://getvera.com/portfolio-posts/fibaro-double-switch-2/
The proof is there! A scandal!!

BTW, the switch is working flawlessly on HomeSeeer which I am testing right now.
The switch is really an excellent device with strong capabilities (parameters).
HomeSeer seems very good too.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 24, 2019, 09:47:24 am
Haha!!

https://web.archive.org/web/20180228102840/https://getvera.com/portfolio-posts/fibaro-double-switch-2/

The proof is there! A scandal!!!

And it now lists at 7. I would list it at 1 or zero
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on January 24, 2019, 09:54:49 am
BTW, the switch is working flawlessly on HomeSeeer which I am testing right now.
It is really an excellent device with strong capabilities.

Are they sold in the EU?

Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Bobone on January 24, 2019, 10:06:57 am
Yes, I have bought it as SW with a Z-wave.me USB controller to start with.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Catman on January 24, 2019, 10:26:43 am
Vera, is also a controller with a zwave radio (dongle).

I mean this:
https://www.home-assistant.io/components/vera/

and then all your vera devices (zwave an non zwave) become available in hass and from there you can do all logic and control.

Sender, can I add Hass to my Vera without altering it in any way?

Cheers

C
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on January 24, 2019, 10:28:03 am
Yes, it only reads vera devices
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Catman on January 24, 2019, 10:30:06 am
Yes, it only reads vera devices

Toy shopping time!
C
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sender on January 24, 2019, 10:31:47 am
Its free  ;D
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Catman on January 24, 2019, 10:51:21 am
Its free  ;D

The Pi isn't  ;D

C
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: DEFARO on January 30, 2019, 05:15:40 am
We also faced the problem of the operation of the Fibaro FGS-223 modules in the Vera's network. One of our customers was forced to put the FGS-223 not behind the wall switch, but directly next to the load. Because behind the switch he does not have a neutral wire. So that the client could control the light "from the wall", we suggested using our portable buttons switch DWB-101 to send to FGS-223 assotiated coomands. Client was very pleased with this possibility until he tried it. In fact, such combination doesn't not work. I mean, the client set up the associations between the buttons on the portable transmitter, but the FGS-223 did not respond to button presses.

We started to model such a situation in order to help the client. We found out the following:
- FGS-223 is included in the controller's z-wave network in secured mode (by default);
- our portable switch does not use encryption (there are various reasons for this, but so far it is). So it included in z-wave network in non-secured mode;
- the associations are set up correctly, and when you press the buttons of the portable switch, the necessary unencrypted commands go on air - "Basic Set 00 / FF" in the "Multi Channel Cmd Encap" wrapper (we monitored this with Zniffer);
- FGS-223 receives these commands from the portable switch, confirms this ("Ack" can be seen in Zniffer), but does not execute them.

We assumed that since FGS-223 was added to the z-wave network by the Vera controller in secured mode, it does not accept unencrypted commands for execution. To test this, we included both devices - the FGS-223 and our portable switch -to the Z-Wave USB network adapter using the Z-Wave PC controller (Sigma?s Certified software).

So we were able to make sure that
A) if the FGS-223 is included in the controller's network in encrypted mode, it executes encrypted commands, but does not execute commands without encryption;
B) if FGS-223 is included in the controller's network in unprotected mode, it executes commands without encryption ;)

Thus, our bundle can work only if FGS-223 is added to the controller's network without encryption.

To allow users to work in different combinations of Vera controllers, we even made firmware without encryption for our 1-channel and 2-channel relay micrimodules DAS-101/DAS-102. But since almost no one wants to change their existing Fibaro devices for analogs (that would be cool for us, but cruel to users), we want to ask Vera engineers:

You do not want to give your customers a choice of how to add devices to the network - with or without encryption?
This is done in other controllers, and many use other controllers only because they are more flexible now.

Maybe I don't know, and there's already a way to add a device to the Vera controller?s network without encryption? Then I ask those who know him to show me this.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on February 18, 2019, 05:27:42 am
You guys know if this problem also affects associations? One double switch sends its 4th group to another and it works and is most often fast (Im guessing because it does not need to relay the request over the buggy Vera). But sometimes the light does not turn on at all. Which is strange since z-wave uses reliable connections (ack/resend etc)
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: AndersMalm on February 18, 2019, 05:16:35 pm
It seems whenever you send a command from the controller to a double switch 2 it breaks associations on the entire network. Is this a known issue too?

edit: no, it seems unreliable even when not sending commands from teh controller
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Domoworking on February 20, 2019, 05:28:13 pm
Bobone,

I can tell you that we are already a few sprints into the development cycle, but I can't be more specific than that. Because of the fact that there is A LOT happening and things are things are yet to be settled, I cannot personally give you more than what Melih gave you, although I'd love to do that.

Got back an old post... @Sorin I was wondering If you were able to reproduce the issue and to analyze it, and eventually if you find the problem.
Not asking if or when... you may need to rewrite tons of code to fix it.

Anyway A forecast would be super!
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on February 21, 2019, 05:07:30 am
They know how to fix it, but they won't do it, I guess for a principle. This device behaves differently and they don't want to introduce a special case just for us.
it's a political thing, and I guess we will not have a fix unless we switch to a different hub.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Bobone on February 21, 2019, 06:04:43 am
The problem is documented. It has to do with the implementation of new security protocols.
If Vera would just allow to join devices in a non-secure way (which is pretty secure anyway BTW), it would not be a problem.

It is an outrage that this hotfix has not been provided during the 2 years that the problem has been known.

I have moved the FGS-223s to HomeSeer. Works perfectly.
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sorin on February 28, 2019, 01:01:39 pm
Hey Google, turn ON my Fibaro FGS-223 switch!

Because we know how much you love to control your Fibaro FGS-223 with Google Home and Vera, I have some great news for you.

We have fixed the issues regarding Fibaro FGS-223 delays when controlled and it will be part of the upcoming 7.29 Vera firmware release alongside Google Home integration

LE: Bonus fix!


+ Surprise integration

Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: therealdb on February 28, 2019, 01:22:13 pm
As I already said, thanks for listening!
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Bobone on March 05, 2019, 03:14:26 am

We have fixed the issues regarding Fibaro FGS-223 delays when controlled and it will be part of the upcoming 7.29 Vera firmware release alongside Google Home integration


Very interesting post, but also quite confusing message:
- I now have FW 1.7.4001 on VeraPlus?
- No release date?
- No mention of flash mode issue (most probably same root problem). Have you tested?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Sorin on March 05, 2019, 04:05:33 am
@Bobone

Release notes are under Official Announcements, here: http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,121477.0.html

What flash mode issues are you referring to?
Title: Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
Post by: Bobone on March 05, 2019, 04:28:00 am
@Bobone

Release notes are under Official Announcements, here: http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,121477.0.html

What flash mode issues are you referring to?

1) Confusing: what is 7.29 vs FW 1.7.4001 on VeraPlus?

2) "Flash Mode" is a FGS-223 function that enables it to flash every x seconds for y seconds independently of the controller and thus reducing traffic/problems. Especially important in alarm situations.
This works perfectly with other controllers such as HomeSeer and Fibaro and has been diagnosed by Fibaro and Vera teams as a Vera controller problem.
Most likely linked to the security protocols that have caused the lags. The flashing starts but is shut down by (excessive) Vera commands.
It would make sense to test this NOW before the release.

Many thanks,

Bob