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General => Lock, Motion & Security Control => Topic started by: markbannister on July 02, 2011, 06:31:30 pm

Title: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: markbannister on July 02, 2011, 06:31:30 pm
Don't know why I can't ever find this information.....
Setup worked just fine
Now, I want to have it turn on the lights for 5-10 minutes upon detection.  It should stay on if it keeps sensing.  Problem is there is some sort of delay before it starts sensing again and it is longer than 10 minutes.  Where do I set that parameter?
Currently it turns on the lights correctly, turns then off in 10 minutes, but won't sense again for another 15 minutes or more (not sure exactly how long)
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: oTi@ on July 02, 2011, 09:21:59 pm
Currently it turns on the lights correctly, turns then off in 10 minutes,
How did you configure the 10 minutes; as part of  the scene?
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: acasiello on July 02, 2011, 10:09:33 pm
I have a ZIR000 that I use to trigger lights through Vera.  My unit resets itself after 3 minutes.  I set the scene so that the lights stay lit for a minimum of 5 mins.  So, as long as there is motion in the room, the lights do stay on. 

Don't know why mine reset in 3 minutes, and yours in 20 minutes.  I didn't configure any special settings on the unit or in the Vera related to the ZIR000. 
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: oTi@ on July 02, 2011, 10:33:04 pm
I set the scene so that the lights stay lit for a minimum of 5 mins. [...]
I see. My guess is @markbannister has it configured through the scene as well.

You could also let the sensor's 'trip' and 'untrip' events trigger an on and off scene, respectively. That's how I have mine set up. AFAIK, for the ZIR000 there's only one parameter that controls the delay. It's parameter 18 (Device Options -> Configuration settings). The value (in minutes) is in addition to a built-in 2-minute minimum.
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: markbannister on July 03, 2011, 12:14:49 pm
I set the scene so that the lights stay lit for a minimum of 5 mins. [...]
I see. My guess is @markbannister has it configured through the scene as well.

Yes using a scene.  Thanks.  In UI4 edit the device,   Edit Device tab, Configuration settings,  variable 18, 1 byte dec, value is time in minutes (seems to be minutes anyway)
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: markbannister on July 19, 2011, 08:30:06 am
Works as designed it seems but not as expected.
Scene never "resets" and starts. Over.  That is I have a scene triggered to stay on for ten minutes.  I thought if the sensor kept seeing movement the scene would reset and stay on. 
Any way around this"
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: oTi@ on July 19, 2011, 10:51:56 am
I thought if the sensor kept seeing movement the scene would reset and stay on.
Normally, to maximize battery life, the sensor would send a single On command when it detects motion, and then a single Off command if no motion is detected for the programmed number of minutes. So if the sensor keeps seeing motion all the time, it won't send an Off or a new On.

You could use 1 scene that is triggered by the sensor's trip (i.e. motion) to turn on the lights, and 1 scene that is triggered by the sensor's untrip (i.e. no motion for the set number of minutes) to turn off the lights.
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: Intrepid on July 19, 2011, 02:27:52 pm
I don't have this sensor, but my ca9000s have 'pulse 5min 15min etc' setting options.  I only use the pulse mode, and trigger a scene when the pulse on is received.  I ignore the sensor's off command.

The scene is set to 'after xx min turn off'.  Repeated pulse triggers (motion) restarts the scene and resets the off timer.
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: oTi@ on July 20, 2011, 08:09:51 am
I only use the pulse mode, and trigger a scene when the pulse on is received.  I ignore the sensor's off command.
I don't have this sensor, but I thought in pulse mode the 'no-motion' delay is almost instant, just a few seconds maybe. That seems fine for 'one-shot' applications, like a hallway, to turn the lights on for a minute or so. But to keep the lights on in a room, like living room or office space, I think it would be generating a lot of needless On/Off commands, which drains the batteries, takes airtime, and keeps Vera busy.

All depends on how much motion you're actually generating, but I think you're relying on the sensor not seeing any motion for a brief period at least once within the 'after xx min turn off' interval.
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: markbannister on July 20, 2011, 08:51:37 am

The scene is set to 'after xx min turn off'.  Repeated pulse triggers (motion) restarts the scene and resets the off timer.

Hmm, the timers do not restart as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: markbannister on July 20, 2011, 08:59:17 am

You could use 1 scene that is triggered by the sensor's trip (i.e. motion) to turn on the lights, and 1 scene that is triggered by the sensor's untrip (i.e. no motion for the set number of minutes) to turn off the lights.

OK, that works.  Trip on turns on lights.  Un-tripped sets another scene that times out in  a few minutes to turn off lights.
This is in our kitchen gets tripped a good bit.  I'm going to get rid of the batteries and use a DC adapter.
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: markbannister on July 20, 2011, 09:08:37 am
Thanks for everyone's comments and help.
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: Intrepid on July 20, 2011, 10:09:01 am

The scene is set to 'after xx min turn off'.  Repeated pulse triggers (motion) restarts the scene and resets the off timer.

Hmm, the timers do not restart as far as I can tell.

I'm pretty sure they do.  I did some tests when I first got my motion sensors. 

If delayed actions did not get reset upon re-triggering a scene, that would cause all kinds of issues.
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: markbannister on July 28, 2011, 05:58:41 pm
here is what I found when using tripped and Not tripped scenes
Sensor trips with motion and I turn on the lights and keep them on
After 2 minutes the (parameter 18) times out and the "not tripped" scene triggers.  This is even if the sensor is showing as seeing motion.  This is either a WAD or bug.  Who Knows
The work around is to to make a more complicated not tripped scene
The not tripped does this:
Leave lights unchanged and then after three minutes turn them off
If during that three minute time the motion sensor triggers the tripped scene, that seems to reset the not tripped timers.

BTW the not tripped scene must at first make no changes to the lights or else it could turn lights on that were already off.
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: oTi@ on July 29, 2011, 01:29:22 am
After 2 minutes the (parameter 18) times out and the "not tripped" scene triggers.  This is even if the sensor is showing as seeing motion.
How did the sensor show it is seeing motion? As long as the sensor is seeing motion, the red LED won't come on and you wouldn't see any updates on the Dashboard.
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: markbannister on July 29, 2011, 09:00:25 am

How did the sensor show it is seeing motion? As long as the sensor is seeing motion, the red LED won't come on and you wouldn't see any updates on the Dashboard.
Right, the "red man" is staying red and running on the dashboard.
Now that I've posted the above fix I don't think it's working.  I ran simple tests to check and it seemed to work but now in the real world something else is going on.
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: oTi@ on July 29, 2011, 10:14:01 am
How did the sensor show it is seeing motion? As long as the sensor is seeing motion, the red LED won't come on and you wouldn't see any updates on the Dashboard.
Right, the "red man" is staying red and running on the dashboard.
The running red guy only indicates that the sensor was tripped, i.e. the sensor saw motion 'once' and sent Vera a 'tripped' event. Thus, it will always stay running until the sensor 'untrips' (i.e. is not tripped anymore).

So, if you see the 'not tripped' scene running (i.e. the lights go off), it means the sensor did not see motion anymore and sent Vera an 'untrip' event.

In other words, it should work as you expected:
- Sensor sees motion > send 'tripped' to Vera > run 'tripped' scene / turns lights on / running red guy.
- Sensor keeps seeing motion > nothing sent to Vera > lights stay on / red guy keeps running.
- Sensor stops seeing motion for set period > send 'not tripped' to Vera > run 'not tripped' scene / turns lights off / standing blue guy.

Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: markbannister on July 29, 2011, 10:35:26 am

The running red guy only indicates that the sensor was tripped, i.e. the sensor saw motion 'once' and sent Vera a 'tripped' event. Thus, it will always stay running until the sensor 'untrips' (i.e. is not tripped anymore).

So, if you see the 'not tripped' scene running (i.e. the lights go off), it means the sensor did not see motion anymore and sent Vera an 'untrip' event.

In other words, it should work as you expected:
- Sensor sees motion > send 'tripped' to Vera > run 'tripped' scene / turns lights on / running red guy.
- Sensor keeps seeing motion > nothing sent to Vera > lights stay on / red guy keeps running.
- Sensor stops seeing motion for set period > send 'not tripped' to Vera > run 'not tripped' scene / turns lights off / standing blue guy.

What is happening (it seems) is that the sensor sends the not tripped not matter what after the parameter 18 timeout period.
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: oTi@ on July 29, 2011, 11:08:13 am
What is happening (it seems) is that the sensor sends the not tripped not matter what after the parameter 18 timeout period.
Understood; but did you try that by actively walking around in front of the sensor and did not see the red LED light up? Did it re-trip right away?
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: markbannister on July 30, 2011, 04:09:14 pm
What is happening (it seems) is that the sensor sends the not tripped not matter what after the parameter 18 timeout period.
Understood; but did you try that by actively walking around in front of the sensor and did not see the red LED light up? Did it re-trip right away?
No
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: markbannister on July 30, 2011, 04:14:51 pm
Part of the problem is that if the motion detects motion continually it not send any new events. 
I think what may be happening is that events are lost at some point.  So I'm back to using two scenes but I've set the not tripped scene to turn off the lights with a value more than three times the p18 setting.  (nb as has been mentioned the p18 setting adds to the 2 minute minimum.)
I'm hoping that the off scene then has three chances to get reset.  Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: oTi@ on July 31, 2011, 08:42:08 am
Part of the problem is that if the motion detects motion continually it not send any new events. 
That's actually a good thing, as the new events are not necessary, and thus don't drain the batteries.

Quote
I'm hoping that the off scene then has three chances to get reset.  Fingers crossed.
I'm still not following. If the sensor sees motion it will have sent Vera a 'tripped' event: the lights are on. As long as it keeps seeing motion, it won't send any new events, neither 'tripped', nor 'not tripped': the lights stay on.

If your lights do switch off, it means a 'not tripped' event was received, i.e. the sensor stopped seeing motion. So it sounds like there is an issue with your sensor, if you're certain that the sensor should have seen motion.

(I have this sensor to light up the stairs for 2 minutes. If I stay on the stairs and keep the sensor tripped, the lights stay on, until 2 minutes after I leave the stairs.)
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: markbannister on July 31, 2011, 01:37:11 pm

I'm still not following. If the sensor sees motion it will have sent Vera a 'tripped' event: the lights are on. As long as it keeps seeing motion, it won't send any new events, neither 'tripped', nor 'not tripped': the lights stay on.
<snip>
I'm thinking the only thing is something wrong with the sensor as you suggest.  Trip the no motion event.  I'm going to try a different position of maybe adjust the sensitivity.  Testing with the sensor sitting beside me I can't get it to fail.  Mount it and it fails right away (actually it fails once I stop keeping a check on it.  Somehow it knows)
Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: markbannister on August 06, 2011, 10:38:20 am
OK, can't get the #$^#$*&%# to update neighbors.  It was configured.  But when I try to get neighbors I get this in the log:
Node 26 Device 15 Kitchen Motion neighbor nodes updated 0 times (incomplete 1 in a row 0), woke up 1 times configured: NO

Manual says removing the battery will keep the device awake for 10 minutes, so I remove batteries momentarily, start update neighbors and no luck....

Then I adjusted paramter 22 to 45 (45 seconds) which according to the help:
Quote
The time the ZIR000 stays awake can be adjusted from 15 seconds to 45 seconds by sending a value of 15
to 45 to the ZIR000 using Configuration Parameter # 22 (when asked for number of bytes, select 1). This time
awake period starts over every time the ZIR000 receives a command or request.
Again I remove batteries and put them back and then did a heal only on this device.  This time it configured and neighbors were reported.
Crossing fingers that this actually works now.

Other info:  Parameter 18  can have a value of 0-255 minutes (this value is not as stated before added to the 2 minute default as stated before.)  The value is +/- 1 minute though which is where the confusion may arise.

Title: Re: ZIR000 configuraion Motion Control to turn on lights
Post by: markbannister on August 10, 2011, 05:50:51 pm
I have tried many combinations of configuration, but the only consistent way to make this work is to use th delay parameter 18 on the motion detector to trigger an off scene that turns all lights off right away.  The great big giant downside is that I can't program a timer to dim the lights for a while first and then turn off.  Depending on how the delays are configured sometimes they don't work and sometimes they work intermittently.  By not work I mean That they do not get reset upon new motion detection.

I'll play more but this is annoying.