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General => General => Topic started by: DrZWave on September 27, 2013, 07:19:04 am

Title: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: DrZWave on September 27, 2013, 07:19:04 am
http://www.getvera.com/ which is apparently going to launch tomorrow...

I talked with Bob Goldberg - MCV VP and he says they are busy developing UI7 (what happened to UI6?).

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: korttoma on September 27, 2013, 08:27:44 am
Intresting, seems like there is alot going from many vendors at the moment.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: S-F on September 27, 2013, 08:52:57 am
Was there anything else said?

Seems a little flimsy. Also if you go to the getvera website it Just mentions control so our hopes of a more sophisticated scene creation interface seem to be dashed. Thankfully we have PLEG.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: brdweb on September 27, 2013, 08:53:03 am
One more day until we can see what they've got cooking.....
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: PurdueGuy on September 27, 2013, 01:07:19 pm
http://www.getvera.com/ which is apparently going to launch tomorrow...

I talked with Bob Goldberg - MCV VP and he says they are busy developing UI7 (what happened to UI6?).
I hope not!  Hmm.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: futzle on September 27, 2013, 07:49:41 pm
This is what happened when their counter reached zero.  Wow.

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: intveltr on September 27, 2013, 07:52:38 pm
Lol.  ;D

Mine says still 7 hours to go
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: PurdueGuy on September 27, 2013, 08:13:04 pm
Mine said 00 hours before on my computer.
On my phone, it says 15 hours!
I guess they are using the browser time and not server time.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Brientim on September 27, 2013, 08:20:46 pm
Failed to launch is one message from Aus. This is what happens if you have a globally released product but forget to remember that everytime you do something. Funny, funny, funny.  Just waiting for the time to catch up. At least they did not have the counter go into the negative... 

UI6 = Commerical release
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on September 27, 2013, 08:34:07 pm
HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden =>
 Server => cloudflare-nginx
 Date => Sat, 28 Sep 2013 00:27:49 GMT
 Content-Type => text/html; charset=UTF-8
 Connection => close
 Set-Cookie => __cfduid=dad03b3da7b517c75d74bde19677dd7181380328069308; expires=Mon, 23-Dec-2019 23:50:00 GMT; path=/; domain=.getvera.com
 CF-RAY => b4c4f6122f00169

Facebook Shares   0

 Facebook Likes   0

 Recent Tweets about getvera.com   0

 Reddit.com submissions   0

Hosting Company:  CloudFlare   

Registrant:
MiOS, LTD.
11/F, Nan Sing Building
727 Nathan Road
Kowloon
HK

Domain Name: GETVERA.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
MiOS, LTD. net.ops@mios.com
11/F, Nan Sing Building
727 Nathan Road
Kowloon
HK
5108426546


Record expires on 06-Sep-2016.
Record created on 06-Sep-2013.
Database last updated on 27-Sep-2013 20:32:33 EDT.

Domain servers in listed order:

ROSE.NS.CLOUDFLARE.COM 173.245.58.141
TOM.NS.CLOUDFLARE.COM 173.245.59.147

looks ok  ;D
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: parkerc on September 28, 2013, 05:06:13 am
You have to laugh ;)  it's showing 00.00.00 here in the UK, the champagne was chilled the band was ready to play.... But no fireworks...  ;D

So how long do we think is left ?
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: intveltr on September 28, 2013, 05:58:55 am
Maybe they forgot today is Saturday.  Or they are recovering from the launch party
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Brientim on September 28, 2013, 06:16:16 am
The appear to be aligned to US Pacific Time (California) and from the earlier points (15 hours) it might be 0900hr Sep 28... about 5 hrs
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on September 28, 2013, 06:58:21 am
If you want some previews ... poke around in:

http://getvera.com/wp-content/uploads/

In particular the Web_*
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: futzle on September 28, 2013, 08:00:12 am

http://getvera.com/wp-content/uploads/

happy-bday-amy.png is truly a sight to behold.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: S-F on September 28, 2013, 08:10:01 am
Wow. Nice find RTS!

I'm particularly fond of this one.
http://getvera.com/wp-content/uploads/happy-bday-amy-1024x1024.png

Edit:

Damn! Somehow Futzle beat me to it.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: DrZWave on September 28, 2013, 08:43:21 am
http://getvera.com/wp-content/uploads/happy-bday-amy-300x300.png
HAHAHAHA! that is just too funny!

Why would they have that on their web site???
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: parkerc on September 28, 2013, 09:24:59 am
@intveltr. - Have you seen http://getvera.com/wp-content/uploads/Starter_Icon_Gray-1024x1024.png

Hope you're getting royalties ? ;)

The UI screenshots look good (green is obviously the new blue) -
http://getvera.com/wp-content/uploads/Web_1920x1080_Vera_UI_Screen_1.png
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: S-F on September 28, 2013, 09:56:50 am
Ha ha! Now it's telling me two days.

@Brientim,

How do you know UI6 was/is a commercial product?
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: parkerc on September 28, 2013, 10:33:54 am
If you want some previews ... poke around in:
http://getvera.com/wp-content/uploads/

There is some really interesting stuff on here.. The Delux/Family & Starter kits look good.

I might be wrong, but it seems they may be dropping the Micasaverde brand, and pushing Vera now.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Ds514 on September 28, 2013, 10:43:49 am
If you want some previews ... poke around in:

http://getvera.com/wp-content/uploads/

In particular the Web_*

Folder is now blocked and countdown reset to close to 3 days. Classic.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: S-F on September 28, 2013, 11:04:46 am
It's still available for me.  But I grabbed the picture of the rainbow barfing unicorn just in case.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: intveltr on September 28, 2013, 11:09:50 am
http://getvera.com/wp-content/uploads/happy-bday-amy-300x300.png
HAHAHAHA! that is just too funny!

Why would they have that on their web site???

New corporate logo perhaps?   :P
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Ds514 on September 28, 2013, 12:38:16 pm
If I had to guess, I'd say the barfing unicorn is the new header for the support page. I have certainly felt that way at times.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Brientim on September 28, 2013, 03:42:53 pm

How do you know UI6 was/is a commercial product?
@guessed found a snippet of info of one of the commercial providers firmware versions.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Brientim on September 28, 2013, 03:54:02 pm
If you have a look at the packages they have and the right side the familiar Veralite on all other than the deluxe which displays a Vera 3

This is also represented here:
http://getvera.com/wp-content/uploads/controllers_glam_top-1024x325.jpg
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on September 28, 2013, 10:09:18 pm
http://getvera.com/wp-content/uploads/1171ad675b6a2a914bc900dbf629ffbd.png (http://getvera.com/wp-content/uploads/1171ad675b6a2a914bc900dbf629ffbd.png)  ;D
coz its testpage u get with wordpress
http://getvera.com/wp-content/uploads/Web_1920x1080_Vera_UI_Screen_1.png (http://getvera.com/wp-content/uploads/Web_1920x1080_Vera_UI_Screen_1.png)
looks nice this new UI.. totally different. seems more userfriendly and missing some functionality like plugins n lua.

http://getvera.com/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.getvera.com%2Fwp-admin%2F&reauth=0 (http://getvera.com/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.getvera.com%2Fwp-admin%2F&reauth=0) Username: vera password: *****  (neh that would be awkward lol) > http://beefproject.com/
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: denix on September 28, 2013, 10:40:16 pm
Looks like a commercial product for end users. Previously MCV/MIOS was trying to be OEM for other companies to build end products. Wondering if they decide to charge monthly fee for using Vera...
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on September 28, 2013, 10:52:27 pm
according to the pics.. nope
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: parkerc on September 29, 2013, 02:18:13 am
Have the Beta Testers on this forum had a play with this new UI?
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Brientim on September 29, 2013, 02:39:49 am
No, we have no indication of things to come.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on September 29, 2013, 07:49:02 am
seems we have another 1 day , 19 hrs to go.. wonder what this step is going to imply.

edit :
didnt come to my mind untill now that there is a mios website with a g100 and g300 development machine .
first there was micasaverde and mios. now we have mios as a separate thing and micasaverde going to be a standalone brand called Vera. So my take is that after we folks tested their stuff, there now ready to make it a standalone product and have mios separate for the tech-savvy amongst us, so we can pay more and have our own device or ppl can just buy a Vera and have a more simpler userinterface without the goodies. that way it will save us a lot of time helping out the not-so-techsavvy and we can focus on development and making plugins to the system which in turn get stolen for stuff like the tricktv and some other brands forked from the original vera. now there is still not a way to have your plugin in market for a certain price (as if anyone favors this.. probably not). like i said before somewhere, we are just being "abused" here for all the countless hours of work put in our beloved HA device. it's very clear MCV just wants in on the money and a lot of marketing blabla and not so much for the ppl that love to fix all kinda stuff for there device. look at the thread for possible exploits on vera and how all of a sudden we get a lot of explaining that their beloved product is wrongly attacked and userfeedback wanted.. telling us that they love the input from users and listens to them to make it a better system for us and in the meanwhile there is a lot of user feedback ignored and a lot of bugs still not fixed. beta testers are being kept in the dark and have no clue whats going on and a lot of frustrated by lack of info people started to make the wiki pages (including me) and took time to translate stuff in other languages as mcv lacked time to do this all of a sudden it gets totally clear to us...
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Z-Waver on September 29, 2013, 09:42:32 am
Let's wait and see what happens before jumping to conclusions.

There have been countless complaints about how "poor" the user interface is, especially for neophytes,  and how this feature and that is missing. There have been countless complaints about how unresponsive MCV has been to the complaints and bug fixes etc.

Perhaps the new website and UI is an answer to all of that. Perhaps it is the improvement that so many people have cried for, with possible changes to the architecture, without disrupting the existing base/UI/website. This could be a big step forward, or this could be just another skin on the same old business as usual(this is my guess). We just have to wait and see.

I will defend MCV regarding your statement about abuse and the community doing all the work. I don't see any abuse. MCV made no promises to developers and any plugin and programming work has been entirely voluntary with no allusion to compensation or anything else, so it's wrong to claim abuse at this point or to make demands after the fact.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: chixxi on September 29, 2013, 10:16:22 am
...now I am exited  :o

Are these the new packages?

http://shop.getvera.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=STARTER-PACKAGE
http://shop.getvera.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=FAMILY-PACKAGE
http://shop.getvera.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=DELUXE-PACKAGE
http://shop.getvera.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SMALL-BUSINESS-PACKAGE
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: parkerc on September 29, 2013, 12:35:54 pm
Are these the new packages?

Looks like it.

The HA world is growing and I would not be surprised if 'Vera' has had some investment put into them to start their own assault on the market.

You only have to look around at all the new solutions hitting the market. So if Vera really wants to go mainstream they'll need at the very least a good/reliable product, an easy to use (and ideally attractive) user interface, some unique selling points and if possible be at an appropriate price point..

I'll be intrigued to see if they lock things down much more with this new UI (and marketing strategy) will us enthusiasts still be able to play around under the hood? 

I'm personally optimistic about the future..
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on September 29, 2013, 07:18:56 pm
it was the idea that mcv helps you starting a business with this stuff and be able to put plugins on the market for a fixed amount of cash and so far a lot of business and not much help and cash.. after putting days in writing wiki and translating the whole vera and tricktv system the only thing i got as feedback was that it was nice i done it but it cant be implemented and not going to be sold in europe. so yes i feel abused. a little.

you get a discount on the packages ? MSRP price and their price ? who makes up this stuff ? its not like some other company sells this stuff or anything. and it is still more expensive then getting a vera lite with a cheap foscam which does the same and probably even more.

im with you.. very optimistic about all the new entries in the HA market, but i wouldn't buy a stripped down package though.. nor would i accept my current vera is going to be changed to a point that the fun is being taken away.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Sender on September 30, 2013, 02:41:53 am
I remember that series... It was called "LOST". I had something to do with a timer... counting to "0"...

Lots of promises, interventions, workarounds, deceptions...

I immediately got that feeling on entering the getvera.com link...

And the feeling got stronger.

I think after 6 seasons the island will completely start moving!
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: brettow on September 30, 2013, 06:24:25 am
Are these the new packages?

The units look the same however they are just packaged with a dimmable lamp module and wireless camera.

I'm only new to this and optimistic by the looks of it the units are the same.

BTW a big thanks to all who have created plugins and shared ;D

Brett
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on September 30, 2013, 10:52:44 pm
thats exactly what made the vera up to today.. the great community support and nice devs that shared their code to all of us.
the timer is on 8 hours or so and still counting (up n down i might add lol)
wonder where this is going.. i also wonder if we get stuffed with the latest UI and if so, if it would take away the plugin/development part.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Crismaison on October 01, 2013, 01:37:22 am
+1
An active usercommunity -> priceless
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: korttoma on October 01, 2013, 03:55:36 am
+1    what he said^^

Even if the Vera is quite cheap it would not be worth it without the community functionality contribution.

BR,
Tomas
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: chixxi on October 01, 2013, 04:29:38 am
I don't think it is possible to create a new Software/UI which is capable of replacing this community and all the resulting plugins.

So I see this as a huge possibility, imagine what vera would be capable of with this community AND a great UI.

EDIT:
For me the counter is now down to zero, nothing happend  :'(
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: ntk on October 01, 2013, 12:43:57 pm
the only reason i brought the vera is the great community , without the community I would buy the fibaro HC2 without even thinking, the app the UI, and the great products and support, all of what missing in the VERA

and it's really hard to do a clock that update from a server ? it does not seem they care that people from all over the world surf the internet, i guess it's a new thing for them :-\
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Thiemen on October 01, 2013, 03:10:52 pm
I totally agree with ntk

I also chosen Vera because of the community... But might jump away with

If i compare MiCasaVerde with Fibaro, it is amazing how Fibaro is working on it's development of products but also on keeping their users up2date by facebook, website and so on.

Now look at MiCasaVerde with their website already running for a longer time with errors on the site, then now the new GetVera site with a counter that starts recounting. Just don't understand how MicasaVerde does not seems to care?
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Ds514 on October 01, 2013, 04:15:39 pm
I still see an hour on the counter.

I bought the Vera mostly by accident and find myself very fortunate that it has the community support that it does. I found myself reading Ap15e 's departing post yesterday (by the way, I believe he is still keeping an eye on things here based on the profile), and realized that departure of certain community members would probably be a bigger problem than departure of MCV at this point.

Hopefully they will turn this around. I keep looking at the other products, and see that the main shortcomings, for me, are the lack of plugins that do the things I rely on most. I hope that they are not resting on their laurels (the community), but what I see on their site, in my own efforts to get support (got no response), and in this forum, are not promising.

If the new "Vera" is just about an updated interface, that would be disappointing.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on October 01, 2013, 04:35:44 pm
if you look at the fibaro HC1  you'll find that it was run by the mios system.
now look at the fibaro HC2 which is their own rebuild of the same system and the great UI they made..
it was buggy and missing some stuff that vera does have, but they have fixed nearly all the stuff that users requested..
and unlike mcv they give the impression they do care and understand the consumers wishes to be informed and have their wishes implied.
nuff said. :-)
i sincerely hope mcv will go the same direction and gets their stuff together and get the vera fixed, instead of posting family pics hidden in a cheap-ass wordpress website

0-0-0 counter and nothing happend...
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: S-F on October 01, 2013, 04:36:18 pm


If the new "Vera" is just about an updated interface, that would be disappointing.

This all depends on what the upgrade entails.......
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on October 01, 2013, 04:46:43 pm
seems there is going to be a normal version : vera lite and a pro version: vera pro , which has a better cpu and more ram. what i recall it is a 1ghz proc with 1gb of ram. new UI is more shaped for the inexperienced user, but still missing some things that the community wishes. as with more new technologies happening nowadays , there is  a huge gap between the techies and the digibetes.
would be great if they hire a normal person without to much of computerknowledge to do the UI design and make it so that it is intuitive and simple yet powerfull.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Ds514 on October 01, 2013, 05:05:32 pm

This all depends on what the upgrade entails.......

An upgrade is welcomed. My concern is that the new Vera may just be a new layout and new icons for the interface. I was not around for previous UI upgrades, so that may be unfounded.

Edit:

All zeroes now as well; nothing. Ugh.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: S-F on October 01, 2013, 05:41:28 pm
Yeah all 0's for me too. But I think it's supposed to be pacific time. So check back in 2.5 hours.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: PurdueGuy on October 01, 2013, 05:54:01 pm
Woh....$999.95 for the Deluxe Package?
http://www.micasaverde.com/packages/deluxe-package/

A mere $1499.95 for Small Business!
http://www.micasaverde.com/packages/small-business/
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on October 01, 2013, 05:58:50 pm
well the UI4 to UI5 implied a lot of differences and offcourse backwards compatibility. from all that i read we hardly cannot do our stuff whithout the UI5 but the UI4 seems more stable.
so i hope the UI6 or 7 will bring some more plugin support stuff like NTP, a notification hook, SSL/TLS interface to the UI, better  UPnP autodetect, etc.
but since mcv is not telling us anything and didn't consult the beta-testers it's not more then speculations :-/

edit:

yes 189,50 dollar savings  ::)
saving energy also.. wonder how , when you add all the devices. the thermostate that doesnt do it without user-intervention,
talking to a utility-meter which is not in the package.. etc..
a lot of blabla and less real life situation.
i mean.. imagine yourself buying more stuff, cost more money. imagine yourself doing hours of research to get the system so far it does all of this.. imagine that security-subscription u dont have and offcourse the cost of internet in your house.. imagine the support that leaves u in the dark most of the time.. imagine yourself go to ebay and get the same stuff for a lot less.. imagine a nice nephew with computerskills opening the frontdoor and messing up the system coz of the security holes when on local lan , which offcourse you gave to them as they beg for internet for their phone. yes the grass IS greener on MCV side, please do come here  ;D
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: ca6leguy on October 02, 2013, 02:26:49 am
Still nothing. What's going on?
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: exxon on October 02, 2013, 02:31:19 am
I guess introduction of these packs was THE event.  ;D
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: ntk on October 02, 2013, 02:32:05 am
Still nothing. What's going on?
Maybe they forgot about it :)) with micasaverda anything is possible

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: ca6leguy on October 02, 2013, 06:46:46 pm
Another day, still nothing. Are they abandoning it?
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: ChicagoMark on October 02, 2013, 09:21:37 pm
....maybe Vera is funded by the US Government (NSA anyone?)  and is affected by the shutdown? 

couldn't resist...

a noob
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Brientim on October 02, 2013, 11:52:52 pm
All this fuss over the new shop "Get Vera"....
It is working but not via the front door.
 
http://shop.getvera.com/Default.asp

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: chixxi on October 03, 2013, 05:59:03 am
All this fuss over the new shop "Get Vera"....
It is working but not via the front door.
 
http://shop.getvera.com/Default.asp

I don't think all this fuss is/was about the new shop.

First, the shop has been on shop.getvera.com for weeks, also it is and has been accessible from the front door (if you just go to micasaverde.com and click "buy" you actually land on shop.getvera.com).

Second, the screenshots of an UI nobody has ever seen before let me hope for more.

Third, the sentence "Mi Casa Verde Becomes Vera In:" which is shown on getvera.com also seems to hint to bigger changes than just a new shop or new packages.

However, these are all logic conclusions and guesses, and as far as I know micasaverde, they don't very often stick to the logic usual people, customers and developers come up with.  ;D
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: intveltr on October 03, 2013, 06:12:11 am
I'm hoping that the name change implies that MCV will shift their focus from OEMs to consumers, and that they will start working closer with the community.  There's a wealth of developers, testers, debuggers and UI people to tap into here.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Brientim on October 03, 2013, 06:22:52 am
I was being sarcastic and following on from the previous post.

I was aware of the link through Mi Casa Verde Shop but most have been awaiting the new site to launch or opening it's door directly... And are still waiting as the counters have hit launch time but must have been aborted for reasons not know to us.

I am not preempting the future because when I was a young boy they said by now we were all suppose to have fully automated talking houses and flying cars both of which I really do have.

They have always shown several UI previously on both MCV and MIOS website and then there was the marketing video which was very precise... Remember the mock up for UI5 before it was launched and when it arrived it was nothing like what they previously presented. Of course you remember the fun with several devices post implementation so once again I am not preempting what the future will bring because if I could I would be buying Lotto tickets instead.

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: chixxi on October 03, 2013, 06:49:43 am
Basically you are right Brientim, I remember the UI5 story, and it was not a nice one. But I so badly wish for a new UI and some feedback from Micasaverde that I just don't wanna be to pessimistic and hope for the best.

Quote
...they said by now we were all suppose to have fully automated talking houses and flying cars both of which I really do have.

You have a flying car?!  :o  I guess I need to visit you sometime  ;)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Brientim on October 03, 2013, 07:11:28 am

Basically you are right Brientim, I remember the UI5 story, and it was not a nice one. But I so badly wish for a new UI and some feedback from Micasaverde that I just don't wanna be to pessimistic and hope for the best.

Quote
...they said by now we were all suppose to have fully automated talking houses and flying cars both of which I really do have.

You have a flying car?!  :o  I guess I need to visit you sometime  ;)

Yes, I have a talking house which tell me to get off too work and I also have a flying car, it flies along the ground to get me to work too many times or was that my sarcasm attacking again...

Just look at @Inveltr website for a picture of my house in Byron Bay too  ;) wait I think I am dreaming of beach holidays too much. 

They was indication on the black hat security thread that indicated there maybe something coming in the not to distant future and even this thread is some sort of reinforcing that this maybe the case but what it is I have no idea.

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: chixxi on October 03, 2013, 11:14:48 am
Counter is running again for me. No says almost for days left. This would hit monday, so I am pretty excited (and yes maybe too hopefull...)  ;D
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on October 03, 2013, 11:33:35 am
I would not expect much for existing Vera and Vera Lite users anytime soon.

If it is a major release ... it will only be available on new hardware .... and the new hardware will likely have serious problems with plugins from the App store.

They would have to put it out as a Beta for Vera 2, Vera 3, and Vera Lite users to access the impact of system changes before making it generally available to US

Mostly I am looking for progress on the product line ...
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: garrettwp on October 03, 2013, 11:53:16 am
Aaron from MCV stated that the next firmware will require updating third party apps for the new authentication. I do not think they will leave the Vera 3 and Lite users behind. Vera 2 would be questionable.

- Garrett

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: intveltr on October 03, 2013, 01:19:15 pm
Authentication sounds like a nice and much needed addition
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: garrettwp on October 03, 2013, 02:36:38 pm
Sadly I was told the api will be different. How much different, I do not know. I am hoping only for the authentication and the rest stays the same.

- Garrett

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: parkerc on October 03, 2013, 02:47:09 pm
It's good to know they are addressing the security issues/concerns, as that were plastered all over the internet (it must have hurt MCV, although that maybe another reason why they are dropping that part of the brand too )
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: garrettwp on October 03, 2013, 03:58:22 pm
The authentication change has been going on for some time. Prior to the security announcements.

- Garrett

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: SOlivas on October 04, 2013, 02:05:34 am
Hmm,
I show 3 days, 17 hours, 54 minutes and counting left.

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: ca6leguy on October 05, 2013, 04:11:38 pm
Website is up!
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: parkerc on October 05, 2013, 04:22:12 pm
About bl**dy time ;)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Thiemen on October 05, 2013, 04:46:27 pm
Well in the press release about the name change, they are talking about the 7th generation interface, so time for a newspost from Vera
Title: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: ca6leguy on October 05, 2013, 04:56:37 pm
No new hardware yet.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: parkerc on October 05, 2013, 04:58:23 pm
Well in the press release about the name change, they are talking about the 7th generation interface, so time for a newspost from Vera

As @Thiemen mentions there are changes ahead.. http://getvera.com/news-posts/mi-casa-verde-is-now-vera-control-ltd/
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: ca6leguy on October 05, 2013, 05:08:31 pm
Yes, the screenshots of the new UI looks quite impressive.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: ntk on October 06, 2013, 01:03:18 am
Yes, the screenshots of the new UI looks quite impressive.

Where did you see pics from the new UI?

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: parkerc on October 06, 2013, 04:13:07 am
@RichardTSchaefer found a back door into the images folder for the new site so a number of us got the chance to see some of the new UI screenshots that I assume we're due to be published. (You can find these in the earlier posts)

Looking on http://www.getvera.com/ I can't find them anywhere, they only seem to  show UI5.

My personal assumption is that MCV had a few 'last minute' glitches and were unable to go live with the new site and the new UI (To help underpin the new 'green' brand and site colours) so they've had to push what's being called  UI7 back.

So that's most likely why (unless I've missed it) the new UI is not being promoted/made visible on the new site today..  (But it's coming, oh yes (cue evil laugh ) it's coming ...)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: blacey on October 06, 2013, 12:09:51 pm
If anyone saved some of the no-longer-accessible preview images, please PM me with a location so I can take a look.  Obviously I didn't access them  before Micasaverde heard about the backdoor you discovered and closed it ;)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Ds514 on October 06, 2013, 07:24:57 pm
New site appears live. "Forget the counter! Do it now!"
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: futzle on October 06, 2013, 08:56:19 pm

New site appears live.

But where is the rainbow-spewing unicorn?

On a more serious note, we need a forum convention for differentiating Vera (the company) from Vera (the hardware). Its new abbreviation would be "VCL". Hmm.

(Unless we pretend that "MCV" means "Micasaverde-cum-Vera".)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Brientim on October 06, 2013, 09:51:57 pm

New site appears live.
But where is the rainbow-spewing unicorn?

On a more serious note, we need a forum convention for differentiating Vera (the company) from Vera (the hardware). Its new abbreviation would be "VCL". Hmm.

(Unless we pretend that "MCV" means "Micasaverde-cum-Vera".)
It appears to have died in the transition to and gone to the MCV Heaven. 

The main issue with retaining MCV would be newer user may have issues understanding and of course, I hope the MCV users will adopt new conventions sometime in the near future.

I also see they have "schedule maintenance" on mios.com.  I wonder what the new structure will bring with respect the MIOS and hardware changes. They attempted to break the direct link sometime back but the legacy continues... When will the forum shift too? And the big future consideration will be offsite access and firmware updates.  So I do not think the changes are finalized or fully implemented to date.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on October 06, 2013, 10:28:38 pm
For those that missed out on the unicorn ... I attached ... it was in my browser cache.
Sorry ... I only had a clipped version in my cache ...


We can still use MCV (Manufacturing Company for Vera)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: CMRancho on October 07, 2013, 08:50:38 am
The signs of life are welcome. It's been a long time. I tried the new Vera iOS app and it still appears to be buggy. It will connect to one of my Vera controllers but not the other. *sigh*

I hope the next version of the firmware they speak of shows some major improvements. Although "hope" may be too strong a word for it.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Crismaison on October 07, 2013, 09:08:41 am
or we say their Vera (the hardware) and our/The Vera (this forum and the plugins)  ;D
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Ds514 on October 07, 2013, 05:30:19 pm
For those that missed out on the unicorn ... I attached ... it was in my browser cache.
Sorry ... I only had a clipped version in my cache ...


We can still use MCV (Manufacturing Company for Vera)

If one does a reverse image search, one gets this (https://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&tbs=simg:CAESXRpbCxCo1NgEGgIICQwLELCMpwgaNAoyCAESDMUHwAfDB8gGxQbGBhogm1mZSbQEL8ehT36j50mSy9h2holG-lIs-FZkDKvIZmgMCxCOrv4IGgoKCAgBEgSX7wK8DA&q=unicorn+throwing+up+rainbow&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=VyZTUsjQAZWh4AP--YDABQ&ved=0CDUQsw4&biw=1491&bih=1047&dpr=1).
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on October 07, 2013, 06:27:28 pm
how about : More Crappyer Vera
seems our plugins made it into the marketing bladiebla
http://shop.getvera.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1831 it is still micasaverde. nice linking techniques being used lol
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: intveltr on October 09, 2013, 07:51:35 am
Sadly I was told the api will be different. How much different, I do not know. I am hoping only for the authentication and the rest stays the same.

- Garrett

Looks like the MiOS security stuff will change, at least if UI7 is a continuation of UI6.  I've worked with an OEM selling devices on UI6, and while they work with HomeWave out of the box on LANs, the MiOS gateway for UI6 seems to use a different URL scheme.  Haven't gotten to the bottom of what it is, though :)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: garrettwp on October 09, 2013, 08:08:12 am
Aaron was in contact with me about a month ago stating that the authentication will use a new method to authenticate and receive a token that will be used to communicate remotely through their gateways. I emailed Aaron just now on when to expect documentation. They also stated that their is example code for both Android and iOS.

- Garrett
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: SOlivas on October 09, 2013, 07:26:24 pm
Hopefully documentation for this improves.  If it is anything like what we are seeing now, then a lot of stuff will break and remain broken.

Kinda like the bugs on the bug tracker. :)



Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: gerardosamara on October 15, 2013, 02:53:18 am
Aaron from MCV stated that the next firmware will require updating third party apps for the new authentication. I do not think they will leave the Vera 3 and Lite users behind. Vera 2 would be questionable.

- Garrett

For VeraLite for sure as this product will continue to exist besides the new produits Vera Pro  and Vera
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: garrettwp on October 15, 2013, 02:54:42 am
Vera Lite and Vera 3 are the same platform with the 3 being slightly better spec. So both should be supported.

- Garrett
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: chixxi on October 15, 2013, 09:44:01 am
@bottrader & garrettwp: Just speculations or knowledge?

Looking at the new packages, I don't think they will leave vera 3 or vera light users behind. I would only expect that the vera 3 will be fitted in a new box an be called vera pro. But these are guesses, no facts.

After seeing getvera.com, my conclusion is that I am a little dissapointed, I would have expected some hard- or software updates, but basically getvera.com is just a new website. However, I have seen pictures of new vera's and new UI's, so basically it's only a question about how long it will take until these are published. The great thing about getvera.com is the commitment to endusers, I was afraid that Micasaverde would stop supplying endusers and concentrate on OEM deals. But seeing hints on new hardware and software as well as their name change seems to be proof that endusers are still part of their strategy.

What I know directly from MCV themselves:
- They have invested heavily over the last 9 months in “consumerizing” the brand and solutions to reach a broader audience and increase sales for dealers.
- They announced at the CEDIA show in Denver that they are transitioning the Mi Casa Verde brand to Vera.
- All the web properties and all the supporting collateral are being updated.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: garrettwp on October 15, 2013, 10:50:54 am
It's speculation. The pro model if they haven't changed the specs from 2013 ces is a much beefier system. Much more powerful cpu, 1GB of memory, etc.

- Garrett

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: gerardosamara on October 15, 2013, 11:21:25 am
+1  for speculation but this is of course the mandatory strategy for MCV in order to have minimum product line continuity between the last existing products Vera3/VeraLite (UI5) toward new products based on UI7 (and optimized maintenance effort).

I have currently one Vera Lite and I am waiting this new product availability to decide to buy a new wave controller from VERA ( VeraLite ; Vera Pro )
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: jduchon on October 15, 2013, 03:53:45 pm
Some news here (in French): http://blog.domadoo.fr/2013/10/15/euw13-micasaverde-devient-vera-control-ltd-presente-ui7/#more-28251
Vera Control ltd has presented (not shown) UI7 in Amsterdam this week. This user interface will be a big change, it will be possible to control and even configure everything from a smartphone. UI7 will be released end 2013 and available for VeraLite and Vera 3. No plan for releasing new boxes for now.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: exxon on October 15, 2013, 08:56:18 pm
Some news here (in French): http://blog.domadoo.fr/2013/10/15/euw13-micasaverde-devient-vera-control-ltd-presente-ui7/#more-28251
Vera Control ltd has presented (not shown) UI7 in Amsterdam this week. This user interface will be a big change, it will be possible to control and even configure everything from a smartphone. UI7 will be released end 2013 and available for VeraLite and Vera 3. No plan for releasing new boxes for now.

release by end of 2013 and even beta testers are not aware of it yet? (according to this forum).
this sounds suspicious, to say least.
on other hand beta testers can be under NDA...
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Brientim on October 15, 2013, 10:14:31 pm
We all know there is something on the horizon but other than what is already detailed there is limited information.  I do not see this as anything but normal.  They are still conducting internal testing as has been stated. There has been a lot of criticism previously about releases to public, so I am not surprised at all.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: strangely on October 16, 2013, 01:49:55 am
If moving to UI7 is anything like migrating from UI4 to UI5 (don't even get me started on the pain with UI3), then I for one will consider not bothering especially if there is no real enhanced functionality like tools that help fix your Z-wave network (rather than making it worse), or things like conditional logic!
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Javelin on October 16, 2013, 01:58:07 am
Rather leave it in up to them nothing worse than getting rushed buggy code.

I've been using UI5 for a good month or so as complete noob to home automation all running smoothly and rock solid at present. 2 Ip cameras, squeeze intergration, Xbmc state, Doorbell scene, a few lights so far. Took awhile to setup so if they can make this easier without breaking anything I would be happy and add some polish to the UI, it is 2013 btw lol..

Notifications could use alot of work by the looks hardest to setup and you would think it be the easiest. VeraAlerts fixes it but very tricky to setup, Micsaverde need to tidy this up..

Hope my VeraLite lasts atleast a year before a upgrade ???  :D



Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: LG on October 26, 2013, 03:14:42 am
A new clue about UI7 :

http://code.mios.com/trac/mios_foscam-camera/browser/branches/UI7 (http://code.mios.com/trac/mios_foscam-camera/browser/branches/UI7)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Pestus on October 27, 2013, 04:06:23 pm
If moving to UI7 is anything like migrating from UI4 to UI5 (don't even get me started on the pain with UI3), then I for one will consider not bothering especially if there is no real enhanced functionality like tools that help fix your Z-wave network (rather than making it worse), or things like conditional logic!

I agree.  Transitions on heavily custom set ups ought to be done carefully and cautiously.  It's easy enough as it is to nerf one's set up as it is.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: chixxi on October 28, 2013, 04:19:59 am
There is also some information on getvera.com, or to be correct twitter:

https://twitter.com/VeraLovers/statuses/390508914497695744

As for the moment I would translate this into "There is a chance to see UI7 running in 2013, no chances for the new vera's till 2014."
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: jduchon on October 28, 2013, 05:04:43 am
Which is inline with my post 2 weeks ago.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on October 29, 2013, 02:10:34 am
Maybe we should ask Vera to deliver UI7 AND a support team too!?

I just looked at their http://getvera.com/about-us/team/ page... it "looks" like there is more than 1 person that works there, but you'd never know from the support we (don't) get. Maybe if we all start emailing the president Lew (lew@getvera.com) or we will be jumping ship to the numerous devices on the horizon or recently released (Almond +, Revolve, Iris, Vivint, Eblink, Connect Hub, etc)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: andreimios on October 29, 2013, 09:13:01 am
Everyone has the right to say his opinion, but we don't encourage this kind of posts. If you have problems, there are some other ways to deal with it, not spamming someone's email. Pleas share some of your bad experiences . This will be useful for us in a better understanding of users problems and finally  improve our services.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: chixxi on October 29, 2013, 09:31:57 am
I also don't agree with the strategy of @Aaron and I know from personal experience that emailing to mcv does not really help  ;)  But that is not the topic of this thread and should no further be discussed her in my opinion.

But since somebody from mcv is reading this: @mcv.andrei any news, updates, timelines, previews, teasers?

(And by the way, I am glad to see some new mcv employees becoming active in this forum. Welcome mcv.andrei!)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: andreimios on October 29, 2013, 10:15:13 am
Hi all with this occasion .
We are sorry for our "inactivity" lately, but our efforts are all focused in developing the new UI7. From now on, I will keep an eye on the forum. My forum time will be allocated mainly for helping developers, but I will try to look at other sections of the forum too.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on October 29, 2013, 12:32:35 pm
mcv.andrei, I sure hope you are new. You have no idea of the history here - No one from MCV ever reads/responds to the forums and formal tech support, and developer support, used to be a joke - now it is simply blatant disrespect for your user/developer base.

We have lost several GREAT community members that were building great apps/code for Vera, shoring up areas where Vera is totally horrible or simply does not have:
complex conditional scenes (PLEG - still around, luckily)
logging/graphing (dataMine - developer recently gave up on MCV)
several from 325xi & ap15e who both gave up long ago

Let me be 100% clear... the ONLY reason the Vera device is worth using is because of the apps the community has built. Period! Without them the Vera device is a dev-kit and that is all... NOT an end user device. This opinion is not just mine, but many, many bloggers, HA enthusiasts and professional reviewers all across the Internet.

Vera has a ton of competition building up steam from companies who seem to care about their customers and support them actively... the Vera device/app is lacking many, many features/functions and support is simply non-existent. 

Example: I posted about the 3 IP cam apps that all seem t do exactly the same thing. They keep getting updated with ZERO explanation as to which one we should be using and when!?

If MCV would spend 30 seconds making ANY effort it would make a huge difference.


Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: ntk on October 29, 2013, 01:22:34 pm
I agree with Aaron, the only reason I chose vera and not fibaro home center 2 is the great community and plugins that people here developed, without them I will buy the fibaro without even think twice, I really hope that the UI7 will bring big change, and also hope to see big change in the android app

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Thiemen on October 29, 2013, 02:36:26 pm
i also agree with Aaron, his way of saying lets email to the president, isn't the right way... but we got at least a response from someone @mcv in the forum, which has been a long time ago...

I just do not understand why mcv doesn't follow the forum/seem to care for their own customer base?
Together we create Vera to what it is capable, so why not someone from mcv who is responsable for monitoring, suggesting and so on for the forum.

E.g. a request for IFTT seams never to be answered, for such a long time, why not keep in contact with your customers that are willing to help/suggest?

Sometimes NO is also an answer, but then at least tell us why, so we can understand, instead of never communicating.
I hope things will change, maybe you can make a start with us???
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on October 29, 2013, 11:20:45 pm
me too agree with aaron on the part of that vera's succes is totally coz of users and the great community and not by the holding-his-hand-up-for-money-president.
there is a severe lack of listening to the customers and developers of plugins. this is really the first thing that should be changed and it would make vera a hell-of-a-lot better.
its not like we are noobs and don't know what we are talking about (well.. at least some of us.. i consider myself a pro-noob :=P) and best of all.. we don't ask great amounts of money for the work we do.
anyways..
welkom to the forum @mcv.andrei and i hope you can find the time to bridge the gap between us and the vera development team.
for the rest.. do not mail the president. it will do as much as mailing to obama does.. taking him from the important job he need to do.

edit: o.. i forgot ..  PLEASE update the forum to 2.05 !!!
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Ramias on October 31, 2013, 10:14:40 pm
Let me be 100% clear... the ONLY reason the Vera device is worth using is because of the apps the community has built. Period! Without them the Vera device is a dev-kit and that is all... NOT an end user device. This opinion is not just mine, but many, many bloggers, HA enthusiasts and professional reviewers all across the Internet.


^This.

The only Zwave device I have are my locks.  The Nest, Sonos, DSC Alarm, Yamaha Stereo, IP Cameras, Web Service Temp sensor.... are all controlled via plugins developed by the great community here...

Now, if only I could get somebody to take me up on my offer of writing a plugin for my Lutron Radio RA2 for cash.... :D  I tried to develop myself, but as has been pointed out, this is not an end-user device.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Sender on November 01, 2013, 08:54:19 am
Hi all with this occasion .
We are sorry for our "inactivity" lately, but our efforts are all focused in developing the new UI7. From now on, I will keep an eye on the forum. My forum time will be allocated mainly for helping developers, but I will try to look at other sections of the forum too.

Lately?!?
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: micasaverde on November 01, 2013, 12:24:59 pm
Here's the dilemma we face...  When we pushed UI5 out, the new user interface had a different layout and this broke compatibility with some plugins that had their own html/javascript interface controls.  Now our user interface has always been our weak point.  Earlier this year we landed some major brick & mortar retail stores, but they insisted we had to give them a new, pretty, polished UI.  In the past year, we HAVE developed two new UI's, new mobile apps, and a ton of new features into the engine.  The new UI's have radically different workflow's and layouts, and we've put coders on the task of ensuring the existing html/js plugins still work.  But it's very challenging with a UI to move forward and also ensure backwards compatibility.  The API's, of course, are backwards compatible--it's the UI elements.  We've also added a lot more features to the Luup engine as well this past year, and an entirely new backend server infrastructure.  Our new server backend consists of 40 servers in 3 data centers in the US, Europe and Asia with redundancy and fail over.  But, only our OEM customers (ie those who rebrand the system and sell it with one of the new UI's) are on this system.  That's because those OEM customers are non techies.  They don't develop plugins or do any of the advanced stuff, so they're not concerned with backwards compatibility or advanced features.  However the MCV Vera users tend to be highly technical and passionate with lots of developers in the mix.  And, even when we have a new Ui that doesn't break compatibility, there can be a firestorm in the forums, but if we do break backwards compatibility the firestorm is merciless.  This is why you hear us discussing our UI6 and UI7, but the last release for Vera is still UI5.

So I fear the community has developed the wrong impression.  You guys seem to think we haven't been doing anything or that the business is shrinking.  Our team and our sales are actually about 4x bigger than when we released UI5.

Anyway, we have decide we can't keep stalling and leave the Vera community with UI5.  We have been having internal meetings specifically about this thread and have decided we have to push one of the new user experiences out this year no matter what, and we're going to put a lot of engineering resources to testing the plugins and figuring out how to make sure we don't break compatibility.

Remember, too, this developer community requires a lot more preparation.  For our OEM customers, for example, they only offer one set of mobile apps for the system.  So, it was easy to switch the new ones over to the new backend system.  But for Vera, there are a dozen 3rd party mobile app developers who developed against the old servers.  So in order to get a new release out, we have to synchronize efforts and work with them to get the apps upgraded to the new server API's at the same time.  We're going to work on that too.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: mikee123 on November 01, 2013, 12:36:08 pm
This all makes a lot of sense to me. As much as i wouild love a new UI (and faster hardware), i would not want it without the functionality i have now. Without PLEG, or iphonelocator and other plugins, i see no point for me personally changing the UI. I will only upgrade once most of the plugins (or at least the most important ones) work. So i think Micasaverde are right in delaying rolling out a new UI to make sure as much as possible will work. And i rather have little communication on teh forum and more manpower in development, although i think it is great to see a lot more involvement from Micasaverde in the forum now, will their help and support it will be even better.
Just my opinion. And i thought we should give them some credit, at the end of the day its a great system, and they are obviously trying hard to improve it.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: gerardosamara on November 01, 2013, 01:19:28 pm
Hello ,

 I was wondering if some of the plugins have been intergrated in UI7 ( or another way to setup ) in order to avoid  the use of some plugins when the feature is now implemented in the Vera ..... specially in the scene management.
So a preview of the changes/improvements in UI7 would be nice before delivery.

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: intveltr on November 01, 2013, 01:36:47 pm
Remember, too, this developer community requires a lot more preparation.  For our OEM customers, for example, they only offer one set of mobile apps for the system.  So, it was easy to switch the new ones over to the new backend system.  But for Vera, there are a dozen 3rd party mobile app developers who developed against the old servers.  So in order to get a new release out, we have to synchronize efforts and work with them to get the apps upgraded to the new server API's at the same time.  We're going to work on that too.

That's good to know.  If we can expect something to appear this year, then it'd be good to get some of us testing plugins against a Beta version soon, and for us app developers to get documentation on the new gateway servers. :)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on November 01, 2013, 03:56:27 pm
It is nice to know MCV is making an effort now, they have been absent for nearly 2 years. What they are doing with OEMs is vapor until we get it, thus is not a viable excuse for the absence.

And, they don't seem to understand the Vera community is likely their most valuable asset considering ROI. Free dev and test they have not utilized at all. Synology, which I love, understands their community is highly valuable and releases beta OS and apps frequently... and they assist their community developers.

MCV has made zero effort to gain feedback/input for feature requests, ui changes, apps, etc... they are working in a bubble. Based on the current UI, I have no hope the new one will be any better as they clearly have no idea how home automation should work.  I've worked with about a dozen HA apps, and 4 protocols, over the past 15 years and MCV clearly did not do any research.

Apologies and promises do not hold water anymore.

UI 7 better be amazing to make up for the crap UI 5 is. But I'm not holding my breath.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Z-Waver on November 01, 2013, 05:00:30 pm
And, even when we have a new Ui that doesn't break compatibility, there can be a firestorm in the forums, but if we do break backwards compatibility the firestorm is merciless.  This is why you hear us discussing our UI6 and UI7, but the last release for Vera is still UI5.

So I fear the community...
The firestorm is inevitable. Obligatory xkcd (http://xkcd.com/1172/). The way I see it, you've got three choices:

1. Release before Christmas. Premature release bugs/issues and lack of plugin support results in uncontrollable firestorm.

2. Developer and Beta release, then general release after Christmas. Months of whining followed by average firestorm because the UI is the wrong color/size/language/religous denomination/smell.

3. Wait too long or do nothing at all. Months of whining... firestorm... lose Vera users to Linksys and Fibaro.

It's the classic case of; you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. I think option 2 is your least worst option.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on November 02, 2013, 12:05:51 am
i just don't understand why MCV won't just discuss the plugin part with the developers of these.
i mean i am making a vera remote for pc and i had to have like 3 years of experience with the vera and we had to even write a lot of the documentation ourselfs just to get it somewhat going and figure out all the options. i am more then willing to change the back-end of my program to adapt to the new standard that could be made instead of the old one we have now. there are a lot of new z-wave devices now and even more are comming to the market and it would require drastic changes in order to get good functionality out of the multi-devices.
i would find the sacrifice we developers would need to make a lot better solution then keeping it on all the old not-that-great interfacing with the vera. for me it makes no sense to keep it backwards compatible to old models and therefor miss a lot of functionality that it could have. it's not so much effort to do a back-end change for the plugin and remote developers and i think most of the developers here have the same opinion. i favor the work-together model as it would get us all benefits and would certainly make the vera a marktleading product.
at least talk to richard to get the PLEG and veralerts a standard inventory, hire him or donate him some devices and stuff as he really makes a difference here. :-D
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Z-Waver on November 02, 2013, 08:38:31 am
@Da_JoJo - Like I implied before, they will never please everyone. Your ideas sound great, to you and others. But, I can see why MCV may have issues with your ideas.

- Work with the plugin developers.
Which ones? Who's a developer and who's a waste of resources? Does Da_JoJo's project provide value to MCV? Should Da_JoJo be included in the developer group? DO they need to create a "certified developer" group or just use existing Beta testers and, if so, how many of those are still actively developing? One thing's for sure, it will take resources(people/money/time).

- Abandon backward compatibility.
 This potentially breaks every plugin out there not to mention the smart phone apps. There are many plugins and apps that are still being used but are not being maintained. There will be a firestorm if a user updates their firmware and suddenly most of their automation stops working with no way to get it working again other than revert firmware and restore from backup. It's happened before. I think that the only way for MCV to "safely" abandon backward compatibility is to release UI7 on new hardware with no way to upgrade and break the old hardware. This seems to be what's happening up until now. But, I'm sure there would be a bitch-fest if everyone had to buy new hardware to get the new UI.

It would be nice to be able to work together, but that doesn't mean that there aren't difficulties in attempting to do so. And, as a company you are much less motivated to face difficulties when there is little or no financial incentive. What you/we would like will cost MCV hard dollars. They must weigh carefully what they spend for goodwill versus what it may or may not earn them in the future. It doesn't benefit MCV financially to upgrade Vera Lite. It is better for them to not upgrade Vera Lite and "force" you to buy a new Vera Pro if you want the new stuff.

My point is that no matter what MCV does, they will piss people off. They have to figure out the cheapest way to piss off the fewest people. I'm also betting that the majority of people buying Veras don't have accounts on this forum.

I do feel, as you do, that it would be to MCV's advantage to bring PLEG into to core firmware. Buy it, license it, hire Richard(if he's willing) and then improve it. PLEG provides a LOT of missing power to Vera, but its interface is also rather unfriendly.(Sorry Richard)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on November 03, 2013, 12:36:20 am
yeah i got the point allready :-)
still at some point we need to move forward and leave certain stuff behind if we want to get somewhere where everyone is going to have an improved system and actually can do all the stuff they wanna do with vera. having a little say in the new interface would surely benefit most of us as we are still the end-users and have to work with it. i personally wouldn't mind that only the bugs get fixed and the back-end interfacing would be improved and the firmware would finally get out of beta stages which it is in since i bought the thing. i frankly dont know any company who sells hardware that has beta firmware on it.
making a rtm version of that firmware is not that strange to ask for i guess.. you would not buy a router f.e. with firmware that is full of bugs and keeps you from really utilizing the thing. somehow i find it hard to get that it takes 2 years of developing just to get the bugs out of the system. know what i mean...
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on November 03, 2013, 07:42:32 am
Quote
PLEG provides a LOT of missing power to Vera, but its interface is also rather unfriendly.(Sorry Richard)

I know! This is not a strength of mine.

Developing user interfaces is an art/science of it's own.  Everyone knows what they like ... that's not the same as knowing what the masses will like. I am always open/reactive to concrete suggestions on how to make things more user friendly.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on November 03, 2013, 09:54:09 am
you see this user-interface problem with iphone and android too. if i get a digibete a android he will intuitively find out how to work with it , but with the iphone they first need to read half the manual before they get it to do what they want it to. eventhough they appear to have more or less the same interface.
the best way would be to have this test is by someone who doesnt have any technical skills or knowledge about the system and let this person do some basic stuff they would want it to do. soon enough you'll find that it could be done simpler and more logical..
for starters it would be really nice if one could find the vera on the network and be able to connect to it.
for example : i have a samsung tv and a windows 8 pc. when i turn on my tv and my pc it would boot to windows and the windows finds my tv and automaticly installs the UPnP device software for it so i can use it in mediaplayer to send a movie or mp3 to the tv and works flawless. the asus router also gets me a icon which i click and it goes to the router-settings page.
if i turn on the vera it would find a home-automation device called MiOS serialnr in networks and when i click this it gets me to a 404 error page not exist. i mean at least this basic stuff should work out of the box and not that hard to implement. its just a webpage. which points to the wrong page ffs... it would be nice if this works and the network device shows the name that u gave to the vera after having it setup.it would also be nice if there was a option to set the interface to advanced so that you can delete files on the vera itself and mess around with the advanced features a normal person would never bother with.
since mcv is reading all this stuff here.. why not make a new topic and share with them what we think could be done better or different and suggestions for user-friendlyness ?
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: amg0 on November 03, 2013, 11:09:53 am
@MCV,

as the author of IPhoneLocator plugin, send me a new VERA box (European standard) with a beta UI7 and I ll gladly help to make sure it works  ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on November 03, 2013, 11:33:22 am
the best way is to get a beta of UI7 to see what is already done, or not, and then make suggestions.

Richard pointed out correctly, which most people don't realized, is coders are rarely good designers. I was, long ago, a coder - and was not fantastic at i. But I'm a great designer. I have designed several UIs for touchscreens (years before iPhone was even a thought of), administrative UIs, global security models, and much more. Understanding (and breaking down) user workflow to easily consumable and logical use cases is needed. Most coders just code for set of outcomes, not thinking how a non-coder mind will need to understand it.

With PLEG, even with a EE degree & 15 years in enterprise computing as a consultant - it took me a few reads and questions to grap how it works. Clearly not ideal for the 'average' consumer.  With a UI coder, a designer, and some coding changes in PLEG, we could layer a GUI on top of PLEG that would make it a good Scene creator.

Anyway... this is all just talk at this point. We don't know if UI7 is just a new skin or really something better at the core.  I get my Almond + in January and I'm looking a Revolv, Staples Hub, and others.  MCV has 2 months to impress me or I'll be looking to jump ship - and I suspect they will see a sharp decline in sales as those competitors come to market strong.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: chixxi on November 03, 2013, 11:43:56 am
We don't know if UI7 is just a new skin or really something better at the core.
Good question, I hope for the second.

...MCV has 2 months to impress me or I'll be looking to jump ship...
If there would be a good ship to jump to. But honestly, I haven't found any device which would make me replace my vera so far.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on November 03, 2013, 06:51:46 pm
ow yeah the UI itself would really benefit if there where more options to make a nice GUI for plugins.. really good point. something like javascript or lua possibility to make own made buttons.. one should be able to put in his/her own buttons and the back-end should be able to work with these. wont break the allready existent back-end. it would just not be displayed and non-usable if the remote doesnt parse these new buttons and underlaying actions/services.

devices should be able to be put in different rooms at same time. instead of the dashboard the rooms could also be made like tabs so you could switch between them and be able to hide devices. in the rooms itself the devices should be separated by type.

overview per room, the beta one that exists is fairly useless and looks crappy

some way that vera can react on different alarm frames being send from z-wave sensors.

richards vera alerts and pleg , chixxi virtual switch and variable container should be standard implemented as well as notification hook

option for logs/events on a separate server/database

support for newer z-wave devices like a colorwheel for RGBW controller, a thermostate climate schedule, clock and support for stella-z 's direct control (perhaps its own device file so it actually going to work and doesn't have HVAC cooling settings which dont work anyway), multi-commands,
z-wave devices firmware update possibility

better documentation so we could at least try and understand how it works. a link on the setup page to the docs and forum opening in new tab/window

https and a more easy way to set the vera up through a webpage which you land on when u click the device on windows network section. password protected local lan port 3480 . parsed in the url itself over https connection. discussed allready and there is not really a solution for this that would fit the case.

possibility to control the vera lua/z-wave module etc. from a windows/linux machine so testing plugins can be easier. com plugin or something like that.

a setting for normal and advanced user.. normal show just the basic controls, advanced the more advanced options (like advanced tab) show also.

option for sensors to choose a device it would turn on for a 0 to XX minutes amount of time when triggered. like push doorbell would turn on the doorbell. alarm-sensor tripped would turn on alarm sirene. temp below XX degrees turn on heater. door-sensor tripped not-armed turn on light. toilet motion-sensor non-armed tripped turn on the toiletlight.

option to set a NTP server

option to remove the service/variable/value added in advanced tab of a device

implementation for tv's, bluray players and other UPnP devices
application to run on a samsung tv for remote control

update the forum to latest version and some way that there are country flags next to the name so we know where users are situated and thus can give em better advice for z-wave installations

bluetooth support for proximity

.. just some ideas
 and some thanx to MCV to bother to look into the suggestions/wishes we have and try and make us a better experience with our beloved Vera. without it we'd be still living in a stone cave. it's like having a wife.. sometimes you hate her when she does not cooperate and does stuff you're not happy with, but most of the time you want to hug and play with her and could not live without her ;D
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: chixxi on November 05, 2013, 08:30:18 am
Another tweet: https://twitter.com/VeraLovers/statuses/395668439282380801

Compared to what I experience in this forum MCV seems to be quite responsive on twitter.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on November 05, 2013, 10:34:02 am
Another tweet: https://twitter.com/VeraLovers/statuses/395668439282380801

Compared to what I experience in this forum MCV seems to be quite responsive on twitter.

posting that "something" (no info on benefits/features/actual date/etc) is coming in 6-momths is not at all useful or responsive. It looks like what we in corporate America call 'checking the box'... "Yes Mr Manager, per my yearly review goals I posted 3 twitter posts every 6 months."

Also notice that all of our suggestions/comments in the thread have gone without comment from MCV.

"UI7 is coming"... big woop.  I have 3 churches in a 1 mile radius from me and I see people walking carrying posters with VERY similar statements ;-)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: chixxi on November 06, 2013, 01:27:59 am
1. With "responsive" I didn't mean they provide usefull information, but at least they react.
2. The tweet is not about "something" but specifically about a "new UI".
3. I have been with MCV so long and waited so many days/month/years for responses that I now even appreciate tiny pieces of information like these.  :'(
4. I have given up the "aggressive strategy", no one cares at MCV so I might as well spare my nerves.

Anyway, I am excited fo whatever is comming whenever it's comming.  ;D
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on November 06, 2013, 09:16:25 pm
mind that UI7 is comming to NEW devices and we are going to be on UI6 so we have an idea where this is going :-)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on November 06, 2013, 10:48:16 pm
mind that UI7 is comming to NEW devices and we are going to be on UI6 so we have an idea where this is going :-)

Not sure how you 'know' this... but any statement to what/when/how is irrelevant until something is actually released. I hope you are not holding your breath. 


Want to read something funny...
http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Luup_Press_Release#Cross_platform_for_OEM_use
... offering cash for plugins, back in 2011. I'd wager a bet they did not actually go through with much, if any, of that.

I'm not worried about UI7 or UI9999 ... none of it will matter soon enough. In the next 6-10 months we will see systems, for about the same price as Vera, that do the as much, or more, without all the hacks and code we need for Vera. Luckily it will be easier to recreate what I have in Vera in the new systems that it will be to try migrate to the next 'slightly less' sh!tty version of Vera's OS.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on November 06, 2013, 10:57:23 pm
Not sure how you 'know' this... but any statement to what/when/how is irrelevant until something is actually released. I hope you are not holding your breath. 
i'd be dead by now lol

Want to read something funny...
http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Luup_Press_Release#Cross_platform_for_OEM_use
... offering cash for plugins, back in 2011. I'd wager a bet they did not actually go through with much, if any, of that.
i know.. still waiting for a discount on the EU version of the development kit ^^
seem like a smart move back in the day but i wonder who ever got it.
 
I'm not worried about UI7 or UI9999 ... none of it will matter soon enough. In the next 6-10 months we will see systems, for about the same price as Vera, that do the as much, or more, without all the hacks and code we need for Vera. Luckily it will be easier to recreate what I have in Vera in the new systems that it will be to try migrate to the next 'slightly less' sh!tty version of Vera's OS.
probably .. i still have a little sprank of hope. nonetheless im looking for a better alternative some time and didnt find one.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: chixxi on November 08, 2013, 09:20:20 am
lol @Aaron, first you write:

Quote
Not sure how you 'know' this... but any statement to what/when/how is irrelevant until something is actually released.

And then you go ahead talking crap yourself without any facts at all:

Quote
I'm not worried about UI7 or UI9999 ... none of it will matter soon enough. In the next 6-10 months we will see systems, for about the same price as Vera, that do the as much, or more, without all the hacks and code we need for Vera. Luckily it will be easier to recreate what I have in Vera in the new systems that it will be to try migrate to the next 'slightly less' sh!tty version of Vera's OS.

If you have alternatives, let us know, give us feedback, compare them to vera. That would actually help somebody, I am interessted in alternatives, but I don't know a single one with this price tag. But your continuing "vera will soon be dead"-predictions are really no use to anybody. You might as well just keep quiet.


And by the way, if you ask MCV you do get cash/payback, not a couple of thousand, but i.e. for the last ten vera's I ordered I had 50% of each.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on November 08, 2013, 09:54:31 am
My statements are 100% accurate...
[li]I did not predict Vera to be dead soon - dead means company out of business or product no longer being sold to the same target market. I did predict they would not be able to compete with the new entries into the market unless they had a significant change in their UI (OS's) features/functionality and support of the user community.
[/li][/list]

... I'm not just some schmo making random, unfounded, predictions. I have followed the HA market for over 15 years and I work the high-tech industry as a technical marketing and business development manager.  I'm one of the guys the market research companies calls (pays as a consultant) to get input on industry trends, market sizes, use cases, etc.

go read about the $299 Revolv with 7 radios built in (including Insteon, ZWave, Zigbee + free life time subscription)...
http://www.cepro.com/article/revolv_299_home_automation_device_has_7_radios_27m_funding/
... big industry backing/funding too

I'm glad Vera has taken care of you for developing code, I had never heard that from anyone before.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: chixxi on November 09, 2013, 05:39:18 am
Much better Aaron, I like these posts with some more information way better.  ;D

The revolve is a pretty interesting product, even though nobody has seen its user interface yet. But personally I don't like their dedication to the US and iPhone, but that is just logic since I am a European Android guy. I wonder though if any of these new controllers will arrive on the market with a perfect User Interface, and that might be the point where you got much more insights and professional experience. But I would speculate that many of these new startups will have to go through a learning curve to first gather the experience for actually being able to make a good home automation UI.

And that is where I am hoping for vera, they have advantages, for example a good User Community, a small developer base, they have actually sold device all over the world. If they are able to fit these experiences in UI7, then there is hope.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Brientim on November 09, 2013, 05:54:32 am
Just a side note: the next generation of z-wave chipset is designed for the international multi spectrum (expect Japan's new 950 MHz which they are switching too). So even though the concept of the products maybe US based, it may have embedded selectable wider use.

http://www.sigmadesigns.com/uploads/documents/ZM3102_br.pdf
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on November 09, 2013, 10:25:39 am
Chixxi,
My point to all of this is that Revolv is ONE OF MANY new entries into this market... and the new companies are hungry to succeed, several backed by venture capital. The attitude of these startups (I've worked with a few startups over the past 4 years) is much different (read as BETTER) than MCV - these companies know the key to success is delivering exactly what the customer wants, when they want it, and how they want it - no matter what the price point is. This all amounts to a good product with good customer service.

Does Vera have a head start, NO.  Vera is likely BEHIND...

I bought the Vera when migrating away from Homeseer for a few reasons, and it has been a very questionable decision. The only light, and it is a bright one, is the user community (incl user developers). But I'm know this will not help me stay with Vera in the coming years as so many good devices are coming to market and they will have a larger following that Vera immediately... they might already have a larger following and they have not even shipped product yet!

So far MCV/Vera has proven...

... how they are in business is really beyond me. I suspect what sustains the company is not directly from Vera related revenue - or these people make very little money, thus eat a lot of Ramon noodles.





Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on November 09, 2013, 10:52:30 am
@Aaron
I have watched for a while ... but all of these new products are fantastic if you believe the Marketing people. Products running on the PowerPoint/Flash platform are fast, reliable, user friendly, achieve ever one's objectives, have no bugs, are inexpensive, and will integrate with everything you could ever image, now or in the future! 

I for one believe in a product that I can buy now, meets my current objectives, and will likely be around next year when I have a problem. 

At this time that list is short ... it contains Vera.

As my needs change ... I constantly re-evaluate the current real market.
I am more confident than you that Vera will still be a player.  At each of these decision points I can decide to continue with Vera or switch to a new platform.

I personally am not tied to Vera. I will always use what is best for me. I expect that MCV will always do what is in the best interests for them. I do not think you have enough information to make that call for them! If you want to do a market analysis of current strengths and weaknesses of current products that any 3rd party can validate than lets see it!
 



Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: BrianLBeaton on November 09, 2013, 11:02:49 am
@Aaron
Products running on the PowerPoint/Flash platform are fast, reliable, user friendly, achieve everyone's objectives, have no bugs, are inexpensive, and will integrate with everything you could ever image, now or in the future!

Clever!
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: intveltr on November 09, 2013, 11:35:25 am
The one thing that gets me about a lot of these new contenders on the HA market, is that they are seem to sell me a solution rather than a platform.  It's a bit like the difference between iOS and Android: iOS is closed, works fantastic if it does what you want , but you're stuck if it doesn't.  Android on the other hand is open.  The advantage is that you can tailor it to your taste, the drawback is that you have to.  (Full disclosure: I'm an iOS guy :) )

HA is a complex market: many regions with very different requirements, and many standards.  I don't expect to see an "Apple" type of turnkey solution anytime soon.  Vera on the other hand is a platform rather than a solution: you may not be able to make it do what you want out of the box, but something or someone out there can.  That's its strength, and that is also what I would expect from a system to replace my Vera.

The issue with Vera is that it is mostly open at the plugin level (which is great, by the way).  The system that also opens up at the UI and device level, to allow extensions on the UI and allow us to roll our own "device drivers" for Z-wave stuff that isn't yet supported, would be a clear winner.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on November 09, 2013, 12:44:45 pm
@RichardTSchaefer

I concur, and I constantly do the same. I will be receiving my Almond + in January and am on the list for the Revolv when it launches, likely in the next 3-4 months. I will do a comparison, and I will be looking at Homeseer v3 since Homeseer is really the leader in the space and has been for a long time.

The fact remains that Vera will be facing 10x the competition in the coming year... no matter if the slideware is real-world or not. And most of those companies are backed by big money. Starting next year HA will be brought to the masses, no longer for the rich. I'd love Vera to do the right thing by their user base and provide the features, functionality, and a user friendly UI... But there is no evidence Vera has capability or drive to do any of those.

@intveltr
Good systems provide both. Look at the vets in the DIY HA market (Homeseer, ISY, etc)... they all provide robust/complete solutions w/ APIs. Many of the new contenders are also going to be doing that. This is why I already payed the $ for my Almond + 
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: intveltr on November 09, 2013, 01:14:09 pm
Not sure about HomeSeer, from what I hear they suffer from compatibility issues with Z-wave devices as well, and rely on the core devs to get it fixed (rather than the community).  Also, I do not like their pricing model, as a user and as a developer.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on November 10, 2013, 10:27:28 pm
10x the competition that has to prove themselves first and for now 80% is marketing blablabla and great ideas (which i have a lot too but don't claim anything) and still not comparable to vera
homeseer a 1000 euro with some z-wave devices a 1000 euro for a small home..  vera will set you back at least 1000 euro for small home (consider my 3 room installation is allready over 1500 euro and im on 50% of what i want)
most of the ppl cannot afford this stuff  ::)
and then saying ur consultant and have thourough knowledge about the stuff while half of the insight is crap and sounds like a unsatisfied kid having no idea how mcv holds up.. jeeh.. i donno man lol
vera was the headstart also and a development box rather then a customer endproduct. the new UI will be out before the end of this year.
fibaro is also a great example build on MiOS technology btw
and yes i eat noodles too ... together with my coffee it's my favourite spending the night  ;D
for me its like a middle-east expert saying its not nice to live in the middle-east... but most ppl there have to live there anyway and coop with the daily stuff which works for them and isn't perfect either. on a sidenote they know they have to learn like every human on this planet and not contradict themselves and sit on a ivory tower.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Brientim on November 11, 2013, 02:30:50 am
I am not going to degrade anyone comments; however, right now in front of me I have a Vera, HS2 PRO, HS3 Pro and a Control system all fully operable (C4 very limited as it was a pull from storage as it was an older system but still capability of being upgrade to their current firmware, if I desired and wanted to put my hands in my pocket and lash out more than a Vera).

Homeseer is not a full solution but is based on two part software and hardware. Yes, they do offer this as part of their own integrated product system; however, for international citizens the integrated is not an option in all cases.  Its development and 3rd party apps are based on a very different model to Vera. HS3 has been a long time coming, over 3 years and the beta phase is ongoing with a final roll out???? Development of old versions really came to a stop several years ago. Interface is as ugly as sin and I state that for HS3 as well.

Control4, expensive and a locked down system. It has also been very restricted and limited in development. The biggest move has came from 3rd party developers that once again only sell to C4 Installers to enable them to integrate other systems including Vera to add z-wave device capability.  Pretty well interface but usability is limited to their logic. Don't think outside the box.
 
Even though I do not get much time, Vera is the basis for my HA control system. My wife finds it easy and more usable they HS (she never used C4). It is not always a single product that is the full solution but neither where Homeseer or C4.  Vera offers the ability and flexibility that is not matched by either of them. Vera may lack Conditional logic, a pretty interface or the ability to customize the interface (re-skin but really neither do the others and if your on the interface all the time, it is not HA in my books) but the work around(s) that have been developed have muted some of this requirements for the time being. 

I do hope what the bugs fixes are delivered in the new UI but I am less worried about the look and more desire the delivered functionality and especially integrated Conditional logic and visualization network reporting capability. I would love to see them really set some teaser on what they are doing... Wait and see.  We all know that companies love to draw people in with good teaser and promotional video and hopefully MCV can take the time to do some promotions too....
   
   
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on November 11, 2013, 05:51:57 am
vera does have the option to "re-skin" on remote as well as the vera itself which other totally lack. see different remotes here : http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/board,12.0.html  and here a on-board re-skin/control : http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,13133.0.html
together with PLEG for conditional stuff and logic i think this more then fills the gap. i dont see this muted requirements options possible on other devices.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Brientim on November 11, 2013, 06:14:17 am
The options are external are 3rd party interfaces and the my Vera option requires requires hosting and additional web servers which is not re skinning but the generation of another interface though it is hosted on Vera or external.

The muted is reference to the push for MCV redeveloped to include conditional logic in their design. Whilst the work by forum developers achieve this, it is not an embedded function.

Basically the developers and forum members filled the gaps that MCV left open in their design.  The future UI needs to pick up where they have left off.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Thiemen on November 11, 2013, 06:16:11 am
Latest news from Vera Facebook:

UI7 should be released at the end of Q1 2014, with private beta releases available early 2014.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: intveltr on November 11, 2013, 08:59:38 am
Latest news from Vera Facebook:

Hmm.  If they make a public announcement like that on Facebook  :-X , you'd think they could stop by here and let us (Vera's loyal followers) know as well.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Thiemen on November 11, 2013, 09:16:30 am
Hmm.  If they make a public announcement like that on Facebook  :-X , you'd think they could stop by here and let us (Vera's loyal followers) know as well.

True That
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: ntk on November 11, 2013, 09:22:18 am
they say till the end of this year (less than 2 months), now its almost 5 :-\
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on November 11, 2013, 09:52:16 am
Latest news from Vera Facebook:

Hmm.  If they make a public announcement like that on Facebook  :-X , you'd think they could stop by here and let us (Vera's loyal followers) know as well.

Clearly you don't know marketing... their target market is soccer mom's and teenagers. Sheesh...  ;)

Again Vera provides more evidence they don't 'get it'.

@Brientim
I understand your points and as we all realize, people have different use cases - thus this will affect needs and value for each product.

I used Homeseer v1.7 (for a long time) and v2 for a while. I ran it on a PC, which was fine since you can run it on a $50 PC (laptops are great... built-in UPS, KB & monitor, small, etc)

Homeseer, even in version 1.7 (from 8 years ago) is 50 times more robust... no exaggeration.  I created very complex scenes in a few minutes Homeseer's UI. While PLEG is nice, it is far more complicated and time consuming to setup complex scenes - even basic ones really. And PLEG is still limited by Vera's inadequacies, making this even harder. Homeseer's navigation/layout is WAY easier to administer.

My points are purely about the HA itself (admin/creation), not the user front-end as you should keep the admin GUI separate from the user front-end.
While The Vera GUI is blah, I could care less. The automation engine needs to be reliable (not crash, complete commands instantly), robust (handle 100s of scenes & devices), and very flexible (do nearly anything the user could ask).  In these areas many other packages do this 100x better than Vera... Homeseer, Elve, ISY, etc.

Vera fails on many of these (a few key examples below) ...

RELIABILITY
For a while I needed to reboot Vera nightly or it would simply stop. This is no longer needed but I find that I need to reboot as sometimes is just stops working, or works VERY slowly... about once a week.

ROBUSTNESS
I don't have that many devices or scenes... compared to what I had in Homeseer. Vera3 is not robust enough to handle more that small enviros. I suspect the issue is not the hardware but the MIOS and/or their HA app(s).  This, of course, makes the reliability worse.

FLEXIBILITY/USABILITY
This is by far the largest issue - or really, sets of issues.
Devs have problems writing code because of the limitations of the core code (I don't know the half of it but what I know would fill a page itself) --  not a problem with other mature DIY solutions like Elve, Homeseer, etc
Scene creation is the largest PoS in Vera. No logical IF/THEN/ELSE. You cannot even trigger a Scene from a Scene(WTF?)! etc.
... This, and the dozens of other items, are clear signs the people building Vera don't actually know or use HA more than just to turn their reading light on at 9pm and off at 11pm.




Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Z-Waver on November 11, 2013, 11:38:06 am
@Aaron - You present so very many valid points. I agree that there are a lot of opportunities for significant improvements to Vera and I too feel a sense of frustration and want since MCV has not yet given us a new improved firmware or the promised hardware. But, other brands do the same thing. I feel even more strongly about Fibaro's failure to delivery their promised U.S. products.

None the less, I still struggle to understand why you chose to leave Homeseer for Vera when you repeatedly indicate that you feel Homeseer(even deprecated versions) is orders of magnitude better than Vera. I seem to recall some reference to nickel and diming pricing, though it may not have been you that said it. Is the purported vast superiority of Homeseer not worth an extra few hundred dollars, to you? If so, why not?

You seem eager to throw hundreds more dollars, than you have already spent on Homeseer and Vera, at products that are still vaporware. Why did you not simply choose to spend that money on the product that seems to satisfy you so much more(Homeseer)? Why do you continue to avoid that choice?

I chose Vera because of a few features that were very important to me that other vendors did not offer. To date, I remain satisfied with my choice, though I will admit I do want more. Vera attributes that caused me to choose it and I have yet to see matched by any other vendor:

Z-Wave.
Simple enough.
Embedded low wattage hardware negating the need for a separate PC.
Capability and extensibility vs. walled garden lockin!
Low cost.
Local control and access.
Ability to continue using the product if the company fails or discontinues control servers.
Remote access.
No monthly cost for remote access / control servers.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on November 19, 2013, 07:00:03 am
and so the grass is allways greener on the other side.. heck some ppl even smoke it..
nevertheless the vera offers what other company's still fail in.. being a allround controlpoint for the remote controlled z-wave and other stuff and while there are allways points where it can be improved there is allways a kid that wants more and start whining about it while others do their efforts to make it better and try to get it to the point where it satisfies there needs. still waiting for some answers to convince me to buy another controller ^^
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on November 19, 2013, 10:38:04 am
Here's food for thought...

look over your entire Vera system/solution - what % of what you use (devices, events, actions, scripts, activities, etc) are based upon user community provided code.

Here's mine...

Devices: 85 total -- 47 only exist because of community code

Apps: 15 total - 14 are community apps

90-95% of my system works ONLY because of the community:

- PLEG, runs ~50% of my scenes, will be more quickly
- Altsteon owns 95% of my dimmers/switches (over 20 Insteon devices - dimmers & switches)
- DataMine tracks everything, and has helped me troubleshoot Air Conditioning issues
- Weather Underground, required for scenes
- Night/Day, required for scenes
- Virtual Switches, required to do MANY things
- Variable Container
- Vacation Ghost
- Wake on LAN
- XBMC State, required to create scenes around watching TV/Movies
- Ping Sensor, very important for occupancy tracking

... i'm sure I'll find more as my system becomes more complex/automated
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Z-Waver on November 19, 2013, 11:00:27 am
@Aaron - So, what is your point? What other platform currently offers the same functionality or extensibility as Vera? You continue to express apparent disdain for Vera and state that you are moving to other platforms, while continuing to use the product.

As I asked previously, you seem to hold Homeseer(that you already paid for) in very high regard, as compared to Vera. Yet you use Vera. Why?

The pie-in-the-sky future systems either don't exist or are failing to deliver on their previous promise or hope. It is my opinion that Vera still delivers the best mix. It is also my opinion that you feel the same way, or you would not continue to use Vera.

This not to imply that there is not a lot of room for improvement. But, it does appear that you are campaigning against Vera in favor of something that simply doesn't exist, yet.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on November 19, 2013, 11:20:15 am
Lets clarify a few things that I actually did say...

1)  I will move to another platform if Vera goes not up their game quickly. I already have a ton of time invested in Vera and the device itself is fine, the support and native software is crap.

2) I don't own a current Homeseer license. I have one from v1.7 (8 years ago) so that version does not support Zwave. Homeseer is not perfect, but is much better software that Vera. I  bought Vera (at 50% off) hoping the platform would get much quicker improvements as MCV looked like they were going to do something great... 2 years ago!

I'm hoping some of the new platforms will be better... so far Revolv (I had high hopes for, has 7 radios, etc) is not ready for the big leagues.

When I get time (just started a very busy new job) I will be looking at ISY and also Homeseer AIO devices. These are the most mature platforms in our 'market'. I will also be looking at Elve, which has been around a while and looks pretty good.

... but yes, I'm still praying Vera steps up and becomes the system we all know it COULD be.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Ds514 on November 22, 2013, 08:55:05 am
90-95% of my system works ONLY because of the community:
... i'm sure I'll find more as my system becomes more complex/automated

Don't forget the mobile interface apps, without which this system would be of questionable use to me. I wonder if anyone would disagree with the statement that Vera's position in the market is viable only as a result of the community input. It seems like MCV (and let's be frank, it is clearly still MCV in spirit) has a love/hate relationship with that community: they realize that the product is marketable largely because of it, yet fear it in a Wizard of Oz sort of way.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: intveltr on November 22, 2013, 09:09:28 am
I wonder if anyone would disagree with the statement that Vera's position in the market is viable only as a result of the community input. It seems like MCV (and let's be frank, it is clearly still MCV in spirit) has a love/hate relationship with that community: they realize that the product is marketable largely because of it, yet fear it in a Wizard of Oz sort of way.

I think any successful HA system will have to rely either on community developers or a massive development and support effort from the manufacturer.  HA is a rather diverse field in terms of types of users, their needs, and the types and brands of devices available. 

Imagine Apple developing a brilliant (and shiny) but closed HA line of products, but hey, their thermostat is no good to me here in Europe so I'd like to use my existing Wifi thermostat and custom built Wifi sprinkler controller.  However good the rest of their system will be, it will never be a complete HA solution for me unless I get my particular devices supported.  My view is that unlike many other fields, in HA this will not be a minority situation.  Now, Apple may work hard to support my particular device, but it's unrealistic to expect support for everything, every need, and every use case.  And that's where the community comes in.

Any manufacturer hoping to conquer the HA market will have to open up their system.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on November 22, 2013, 10:02:04 am
I don't think that the success of any HA system is based on the community writing massive amounts of code to fill core system gaps (virtual devices, complex scenes, timers, etc). Talking about a consumer (not open source / free) offerings, there are several (costs in decreasing order) like Crestron, Control4, HAI, Homeseer, Elve, Home Control Assistant - core code from the vendor has nearly everything I use, where with Vera the community had to create it.

Most fall short with mobile apps so, and while I rely on AutHomation like it is oxygen, I will not count that against Vera. -- I know you are surprised huh ;-)

Vera needs to give us UI7 so we can see/touch/play... they need to instil confidence in the community. I have a feeling that UI7 is mostly smoke and mirrors and that is why they have not.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Sender on November 22, 2013, 10:54:23 am
If there was no authomationhd I would not have vera anymore.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: dferrey on November 22, 2013, 11:39:59 am
I don't think that the success of any HA system is based on the community writing massive amounts of code to fill core system gaps (virtual devices, complex scenes, timers, etc). Talking about a consumer (not open source / free) offerings, there are several (costs in decreasing order) like Crestron, Control4, HAI, Homeseer, Elve, Home Control Assistant - core code from the vendor has nearly everything I use, where with Vera the community had to create it.
and yet you use Vera, why is that?

I understand what you're saying.  But creating all that "core code" comes at a cost. Sometime "you get what you pay for", is reality.  Vera was my first toe in the automation waters.  I put it on hold while a tested Smartthings whose business model is similar to Vera. The difference is the user community code base is in it's infancy.  That plus their view of Android as a second class citizen behind the iPhone caused me to sell Smartthings and return to Vera.

I would love if Vera had the all the bells and whistles found with user developed apps, but coding isn't cheap and Vera is priced right for me.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: DrZWave on December 01, 2013, 05:34:04 pm
HomeSeer Zee is $199 (low cost).
Uses only 6W (low power).
Highly extensible with lots of 3rd party plugins (some of which cost $).
Good UI - maybe not great but still evolving.
Based on Raspberry Pi so you put LOTS of customizations under it.

I have demoed one but not extensively so far. Seems stable though HS3 is still in beta and a bit buggy but less so than Vera.

I also recently purchased the Iris system from Lowes to demo.
Seems reliable but ONLY talks to "Iris compatible" devices. While you can join any zwave device and simple things like switches seem to work, many devices like wall controllers and thermostats probably won't (I haven't tried any yet).
It is cloud based so there has to be an internet connection for it to run.
But no port forwarding needed.
Definitely geared for soccer moms. But they are putting out a LOT of advertising including TV ads.

I want to try out the Staples Connect system from Zonoff.

All of the above have zero subscription fees. Lowes and staples systems are $99 for the hub and starter kits cost a few hundred depending on what's in them (cameras, thermostats and especially doorlocks up the price). Lowes has a subscription fee for additional features and a cell backup internet connection for only $4.95/mo which I think is quite reasonable for a big boost in reliability given the common failure of my cable company to provide internet access.

There were a lot of other new guys at Cedia so I suspect this space might take off and new players will zoom in and jump all over anyone who isn't releasing major new revs on a quarterly basis.

Watch out Vera!
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: BOFH on December 01, 2013, 09:20:34 pm
In all honesty, am update to Vera's Web UI to me is of very low priority to me. It's not the best but it works. The only time I use it is if I can't do it via Authomation or Imperihome on my Touchpad's or my LG G2.

To mew highest priority is stability of the core and improved support for z-wave devices (waiting impatiently for Lowe's Iris smoke detector to be fully supported by Vera) as well as better IP camera support. I'm transitioning my IP camera's away from Vera to Blue Iris due to that.

I also agree that a sizable part of Vera's success is due to community support, from the plug-in's to the Android an iOS apps. I agree that Vera's lack of presence here but seemingly concentrating on Facebook is disconcerting. There is a lot of experience with the platform as well as knowledge that could be harvested to improve the platform. 
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Jasper on January 20, 2014, 10:15:43 am
Well, the new UI7 interface looks promising:

http://www.affordamation.com/news/veras-updated-user-interface-making-home-automation-easier/
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Tank on January 20, 2014, 10:28:28 am
Well, the new UI7 interface looks promising:

http://www.affordamation.com/news/veras-updated-user-interface-making-home-automation-easier/

This is UI6
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: n0ir on January 20, 2014, 10:33:18 am
Geofencing seems great! I have (not very successfully... :S) tried to achieve this by using the iPhoneLocator app in combination with automatic bluetooth connection to a wall-mounted tablet in the house, but using the wifi would be much easier.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: LightsOn on January 20, 2014, 11:16:30 am
hmmm interesting.  Geofencing is for sure of interest but I am interested to see the logic they use to determining  leaving and returning the 'geofence' and other issues. I have a similar set up working as do many others and there are issues that can cause reliability / stability.  Will be interesting to review its implementation - if stable and useable it will be great.

New UI.. good stuff but not a big one for me.

Pleased to see continued development though - always a good thing.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on January 20, 2014, 12:08:14 pm
GeoFencing based on 1 technology is not going to be reliable for all requirements.


    Wifi connection attempt (Noticing the DHCP request for IP address) might be useful as an arrival ... but not as a departure event.
    You really need something more like a GPS with a postive reading to indicate you are NOT home.
    A positive GPS reading could indicate you are home ... but my GPS does not work reliably indoors.
    Depending where my phone is located ... it does not always work well when I am driving.



Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: TC1 on January 20, 2014, 12:14:33 pm
To do Geo-fencing reliably one needs (for now) a beaconing system, usually a key fob with a small transmitter with limited range and a controller or sensing device that knows how to pick up the signal. Since one usually takes their car or house keys when they permanently leave the house (as opposed to just checking the mail or in the backyard), this works out well for most daily use cases.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on January 20, 2014, 12:22:16 pm
I think the Key FOB also works as a positive sign that you are home.
But the absence is not a positive sign that you are NOT home.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: TC1 on January 20, 2014, 12:57:00 pm
I think the Key FOB also works as a positive sign that you are home.
But the absence is not a positive sign that you are NOT home.

...or a sign your teenage kid took your car out without permission. Again.

On the serious side, not sure there's any system that is foolproof in that respect, ie, detecting when you are not home since any sensor can temporarily lose signal. Maybe an algorithm of a *number* of sensors, such as fob, phone, GPS, wifi, etc, and then you look for a majority quorum to determine user state (home or not home).
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: S-F on January 20, 2014, 01:20:11 pm
I've been using the ping sensor and a virtual switch for this. Phone is connected for 3 or more minutes and the switch turns on indicating presence. No ping for 3 minutes and it goes off. Seems to work OK but it's unreliable for things such as triggering a scene upon arrival. I tried using Tasker with AutoLocation and it caused MANY more issues than it solved. Also when Google Latitude was still up and running EVERY DAY it would report me in places I either hadn't been that day or ever.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on January 20, 2014, 02:52:04 pm
I've been using the ping sensor and a virtual switch for this. Phone is connected for 3 or more minutes and the switch turns on indicating presence. No ping for 3 minutes and it goes off. Seems to work OK but it's unreliable for things such as triggering a scene upon arrival. I tried using Tasker with AutoLocation and it caused MANY more issues than it solved. Also when Google Latitude was still up and running EVERY DAY it would report me in places I either hadn't been that day or ever.

I have a similar setup using PLEG, Ping, Virtual Switch, AND Tasker (Network Location).... it works VERY well. I use delay times only on leaving, not arriving... and these do trigger scenes for my security system, even upon arrival.

I'll open a new thread in the PLEG section called "Geofencing & Occupancy Tracking - discussion thread"

want to move this there?
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: LightsOn on January 20, 2014, 04:05:57 pm
@Aaron

Sounds great, I am working on my second vershion of this soloution curently. This one PLEG, previous was lua, timers and virtual switches, will be keen to se what you have.

Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on January 20, 2014, 06:41:38 pm
Thread started...
Geofencing & Occupancy Tracking - discussion thread
http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,22644.0.html
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: garrettwp on January 20, 2014, 09:38:18 pm
Well, the new UI7 interface looks promising:

http://www.affordamation.com/news/veras-updated-user-interface-making-home-automation-easier/

This is UI6

I believe this is UI7. Which is the full ui overhaul. UI6 is a cross between of ui5 and ui7.

- Garrett

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: chixxi on January 21, 2014, 01:03:37 am
I think he most interessting part for me is not about geofencing, I already found a reliable solution. The most exciting part for me is the little hint from the video where he talks about "logic in sentences...". I really do hope they have something like PLEG implemented.

The only thing I am excited about the new UI is getting rid of these much to small "windows" for device and plugin settings.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on January 21, 2014, 01:29:09 am
I think he most interessting part for me is not about geofencing, I already found a reliable solution. The most exciting part for me is the little hint from the video where he talks about "logic in sentences...". I really do hope they have something like PLEG implemented.

The only thing I am excited about the new UI is getting rid of these much to small "windows" for device and plugin settings.

My guess is (anyone want to bet on this?) PLEG is far more robust (and complicated) than what UI7 will have natively. I just pray they don't break PLEG.
I suspect what that guys was trying to say (and doing so very poorly) was they will have a "natural language" style conditional logic structure. Which is basically If-Then-Else. No surprise, this is as simple as it gets, and is really HA 101... so, we should all start to consider UI7 as version 1 of an actual consumer ready product. But, congrats to you all... You've been unwittingly alpha and beta testing for years and by the end of 2014 they will be ready to release version 1.0! You did not know that UI5 was code for version '0.5'
Again, I'd be surprise of they do more... or even can. I doubt they have any coders that could hold a candle to Richard.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: LightsOn on January 21, 2014, 06:08:31 am
@chixxi

If you had a moment it would be great to hear about your geofencing solution in Aaron's new thread  :)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Z-Waver on January 21, 2014, 08:55:15 am
@Aaron - I agree with you here. It sounded to me like they simply changed the present scene creation interface, which already is an If this Then that metaphor and made it a bit simpler to understand with natural language. This as opposed to the non-linear flow and confusing nature of scene creation with today's tabs for schedules, triggers, devices...

I anticipate no changes to the logic capabilities and no challenge to PLEG, certainly not in UI6 as demonstrated and possibly not in IU7. I think that Vera will still be incapable of an AND condition. The representative's description sounded like an interface change alone, to me. Basically, lipstick on a pig. But, I also think that the pig needs lipstick. The learning curve is currently too steep for the typical consumer. Creating a basic scene should be intuitive, but today it requires lengthy study and understanding of the scene concept and the Vera interface before it "clicks".

With that being said, I don't see an urgent need for native complex logic handling because we have it in PLEG. It doesn't matter so much to me where the functionality comes from, so long as it exists. I feel that PLEG's interface, like scene creation, is also non-intuitive but I can't tell @RichardTScaefer how to make it better. It's a complex matter and despite being able to see that it needs improvement, I have no idea how to improve it. Hopefully MCV's lipstick will lend some ideas for improving it.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: TC1 on January 21, 2014, 09:53:08 am
I agree that PLEG is awesome... it's everything MCV should have done to begin with. But the problem is that it's not native to the Vera web interface experience, so I can't easily see at a top level what all my schedules are like in Scenes, or on remote devices when checking my Vera. MCV should just pay RichardT a large sum of money  and incorporate the logic engine into Vera  :)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: n0ir on January 21, 2014, 09:58:21 am
MCV should just pay RichardT a large sum of money  and incorporate the logic engine into Vera  :)

+1

However, as a beginner I would really also like some lipstick added to RichardTs pig... ;)

I think Fibaro have a great GUI on the HC2 and it is very intuitive. Would love for something like this on the Vera in UI7 (with the important AND option...).
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on January 21, 2014, 03:26:57 pm
Quote
I think Fibaro have a great GUI on the HC2 and it is very intuitive. Would love for something like this on the Vera in UI7 (with the important AND option...).
Is there a video of hc2 doing something with a complex. ... Ors and ands ... Expression?

Anybody else have anything like the sequence expressions ?
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Z-Waver on January 21, 2014, 03:31:04 pm
Drool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4MqGDConbc

Scene creation starts a 7:41
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on January 21, 2014, 05:44:47 pm
Fibaro scene creation (too bad the video quality is crap)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=texB6dJwKOc

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: n0ir on January 21, 2014, 05:58:31 pm
I tried the HC2 some time ago (before I bought my Vera Lite) and I must say the scene creation was very slick... It was quite a challenge to start using the Veras more... nerdy interface. ;) I am by no means some luddite but I really think the GUI matters. I guess Micasaverde agrees based on what we have seen of UI7.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: TC1 on January 21, 2014, 06:22:52 pm
Drool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4MqGDConbc

Scene creation starts a 7:41

Drool is right. A gorgeous interface and AND, OR, THEN support. The schedule, devices, settings all laid out in one window.

If they support plugins or extensions then I can't see people not wanting to migrate to this platform if they can keep it around $500 or less. I'm willing to pay more for a system that is actively updated and moved forward.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: n0ir on January 21, 2014, 06:38:02 pm
Drool is right. A gorgeous interface and AND, OR, THEN support. The schedule, devices, settings all laid out in one window.

If they support plugins or extensions then I can't see people not wanting to migrate to this platform if they can keep it around $500 or less. I'm willing to pay more for a system that is actively updated and moved forward.

HC2 support scripts but plugins would make it really, really attractive. The only reason why I went with the Vera is the plugin f?r the RFXtrx and support for 433 MHz devices (because I already had a system using this frequency).

I also really like Fibaros hardware. Very stylish. I think it is the "iOS" of smart home. A bit less intelligent but everything just works (and looks good when doing it). ;) Vera is the Linux and Android of the bunch. Very customizable and "techy", but really geeky.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: oTi@ on January 21, 2014, 06:40:07 pm
From a discussion on MCV's private beta board, on UI design, January 2012...

Quote
For example, it appears they have compound conditional scenes and a thermostat schedule UI.

Perhaps MCV will get some inspiration. [...]

Still online: http://www.fibaro.com/us/the-fibaro-system/home-center-2 , Advanced Scenes at the bottom.

Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: RexBeckett on January 21, 2014, 06:52:41 pm
I setup an HC2 for a friend. The UI is pretty good and the graphical scene editor looks most impressive - until you try to use it for real-world scenarios where you need if/then/else and combinations of and/or. I ended-up using Lua code for almost every scene. It's certainly better than UI5 but it falls far short of PLEG's capabilities.  ;D
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: S-F on January 21, 2014, 09:26:24 pm
Wow. A human readable log! What's that for? What a novelty! Not useful for me though since every time I want to know when the kitchen light was last on I happily trawl through my own weight in unix jargon in the Vera log.  ::)

If they can make the scene creation more robust and bring more devices under control Vera would quite literally have nothing on this. Well except for price. Maybe.

Does the HC2 have that feature that allows other random people to view your logs? That might be a feature that's unique to Vera also.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: strangely on January 21, 2014, 09:49:18 pm

Does the HC2 have that feature that allows other random people to view your logs? That might be a feature that's unique to Vera also.
I wonder if it also has the feature where somebody changes your access password randomly, and updates you to a new UI ;)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: intveltr on January 22, 2014, 03:51:55 am
Where the Fibaro UI seems to beat the Vera one is in the use of screen real estate.   I don't care much about the looks of the UI since I only use it to set up devices and scenes, but UI5 is positively horrible in its layout, especially if you have a lot of devices.   Even small tasks require an awful amount of scrolling.  Simple solution: fix the top level menu bar instead of scrolling it up and away, and use a side menu to switch between subtasks (scene triggers, lua, etc) and/or jump between rooms.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: LightsOn on January 22, 2014, 05:21:09 am
Agreed HC2 does look great but I have to agree that for me as much as UI is important it is not the primary as I want to spend more time enjoying the benefits of HA not too much time spent in the system itself.  As such set up and capability has to be primary for me and as such Vera for me still leads here.  I cant deny however a UI overall is a nice to have and would make sense.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Aaron on January 22, 2014, 10:05:02 am
Agreed HC2 does look great but I have to agree that for me as much as UI is important it is not the primary as I want to spend more time enjoying the benefits of HA not too much time spent in the system itself.  As such set up and capability has to be primary for me and as such Vera for me still leads here.  I cant deny however a UI overall is a nice to have and would make sense.

I agree with you, and intveltr... meaning, I'm a set it and forget it guy, I don't want to tinker with it (if it is working fine). The issue with Vera's UI is that when you NEED to do something, it is tedious and in most cases, without community apps, literally impossible without being a LUA coder. 

If you take a look at many other HA apps/devices like: ISY, Elve, Home Control Assistant, etc... the conditional logic (including the UI to build it) is 10x better compared to Vera. Take a look at HCA's visual programming - it is a flow chart... www.hcatech.com

Vera has a good base platform, well good enough... they simply need to hire experienced home automation programmers AND talk-to / listen-to the user community. I suspect the problem is the Vera staff don't actually do 'Home Automation', if anything at all they do basic 'Home Control'. 
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: oTi@ on January 22, 2014, 11:04:55 am
I suspect the problem is the Vera staff don't actually do 'Home Automation', if anything at all they do basic 'Home Control'.
Make that Smarter Home Control. ;)
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: intveltr on January 22, 2014, 11:32:38 am
Home Automation is more appropriate:
Automation comes from the root "auto-" meaning "self-", and "mating" meaning "screwing".
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: gtallan on January 23, 2014, 10:16:09 am
Where the Fibaro UI seems to beat the Vera one is in the use of screen real estate.   I don't care much about the looks of the UI since I only use it to set up devices and scenes, but UI5 is positively horrible in its layout, especially if you have a lot of devices.   Even small tasks require an awful amount of scrolling.  Simple solution: fix the top level menu bar instead of scrolling it up and away, and use a side menu to switch between subtasks (scene triggers, lua, etc) and/or jump between rooms.

Yes it's a little disturbing to me that the snippets we see of the "new UI" seem to have way more whitespace - hopefully it is better organized and so more efficient, but it seems possible there will be less on the screen at one time.
Title: Re: CEDIA 2013 - MiCasaVerde changes name to Vera and suggest UI7
Post by: Da_JoJo on January 25, 2014, 04:18:30 pm
i installed the new UI6 and it has way too many whitespace and it is totally far from being organized and confusing. also some devices screw up the layout , its also not resizeing to fullscreen.