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General => Upgrading => Topic started by: Aaron on August 02, 2016, 08:24:47 pm

Title: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Aaron on August 02, 2016, 08:24:47 pm
Looking for your input/help figuring this out.

Hypothesis...
Bug with how the Vera is creating Neighbor Devices is causing communications to fail?

Why that Hypothesis...
Tech Support noticed ALL of the failing devices have Neighbor Nodes to the two same devices (5 & 135) BUT those are NOT ZWAVE devices!  (5=Irrigation controller; 135=device created from the Ping Sensor app)

Possible Fix...
Anyone know how to manually/permanently remove Neighbor Devices withing the Zwave configs?



Seems like everyone, or almost everyone, who migrated from UI5 to UI7 has this issue.
 - Don't know if this is related but ALL of my Motion Sensors NEVER show the proper status, they never show a tripped state.

My basic testing:

1. pull batteries for ALL my battery operated ZWave devices - and put them back in. For a while, the ?Can?t Detect Devices? message did go away on all of those devices that are actually in use. But a few hours later that message returned.

2. As a test, I excluded and included one of my Motion Sensors. While it no longer, ever, shows the ?Can?t Detect Devices? message it still NEVER registers a state change (tripped).


Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on August 02, 2016, 09:21:03 pm
You are misunderstanding this .. Z-Wave nodes are identified by the AltId in a vera device.
You need to find the Vera Devices that have an AltId of 5 and 135
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Sender on August 16, 2016, 10:08:23 am
You are misunderstanding this .. Z-Wave nodes are identified by the AltId in a vera device.
You need to find the Vera Devices that have an AltId of 5 and 135

Richard,

what is the difference between a device number and an altid?
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: michaelhinchey on October 02, 2016, 09:02:19 pm
You are misunderstanding this .. Z-Wave nodes are identified by the AltId in a vera device.
You need to find the Vera Devices that have an AltId of 5 and 135

Richard,

what is the difference between a device number and an altid?

Just in case anyone needs clarification here is the answer here.
Thread:  http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=27218.0

A Z-Wave device has two identities: Within the Z-Wave network, it has a Node number; Within Vera, it has a Device number. When you add a new device it usually gets the next number of each type - one higher than the last added device.

When you are controlling and programming devices with Vera you usually refer to them by Device number. The actual control via the Z-Wave network uses the Node number.

On the Settings tab, ID refers to the Node number.

On the Advanced tab, id refers to the Device number and altid refers to the Node number.

Neighbors are the Node numbers that are within communications range of a device.

In AutoRoute, there may be several routes separated by commas. Each route is a Node number - or multiple Nodes separated by periods - followed by a dash and a score. The score indicates the latency of the route and small numbers are better. There may also be an x suffix which indicates that the route failed when last tried. Note: This does not necessarily mean that it doesn't work...

 
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: rafale77 on October 05, 2016, 03:10:10 pm
A couple of weeks ago, I came back one day and ran into a massive number of my devices reporting the "can't detect device" problem.
For the first device I did a reset of the device, deleted it from the vera and paired it again. What I noticed before doing it though was that the device (a switch which happen to have a direct association to another device) was actually still functioning properly within the zwave network. The direct zwave association had no problem but does not rely on the Vera. Having 20+ devices having this error. I decided to try to recover from a backup... and it worked!

My conclusion is that the Vera Plus with the current firmware is very prone to memory/data corruption which causes all kinds of havoc. I had the intermittent error in "Lua code or startup Lua " come and removed by restarting the Luup engine which was already a sign of memory corruption but was resolved with the last firmware.
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Wallace4793 on October 12, 2016, 09:37:56 am
Hi,

I am having all sorts of probelms with "error code 1 - cannot detect device" after upgrading to UI7. I have had to restore to default and add all my devices again but still devices work for a while (sometimes minutes, sometimes hours) and then report the error code 1... to confuse matters they do react to vera and switch off/off but do not show the status changes in the UI and report error code 1.

Is this an issue with UI7. My unit is a vera lite.

John
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: battars on October 19, 2016, 04:06:23 pm
I've asked this same question in another thread regarding a deadbolt - apologies if it counts as a repost:

Is anyone with a fresh install having this issue? I currently have a Vera 3 on UI5 but I'm contemplating starting from scratch with a Vera Plus. I'm wondering if some of these quirks are related to upgrade bugs. Thanks
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Shaigan on October 19, 2016, 06:01:02 pm
I've started a fresh install on a VeraPlus on UI7 1.7.1786 and I've got some "Can't Detect Device" problems on battery operated devices like two Everspring HSM02 and a Fibaro FGD221; and some startup crashes some times to times.

As a personal advice, if your UI5 Vera3 is fully functionnal, just wait the resolution of those bugs before upgrade it.
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Aaron on October 20, 2016, 10:31:36 am
I've started a fresh install on a VeraPlus on UI7 1.7.1786 and I've got some "Can't Detect Device" problems on battery operated devices like two Everspring HSM02 and a Fibaro FGD221; and some startup crashes some times to times.

As a personal advice, if your UI5 Vera3 is fully functionnal, just wait the resolution of those bugs before upgrade it.
Exactly... Amazing that Vera llc made the firmware 3x worse (more major bugs) than ui5 and still haven't fixed it. They are so inept ui7 might never be usable.

 I'm staying on Vera 3 with UI5 and looking at moving to Homeseer, just haven't had time.
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: shallowearth on October 20, 2016, 12:10:57 pm
If you are on an Edge the last good firmware was    1.7.1248,
After that they took an update to the z-wave chipset, which is when the can't detect device problems started.  I highly suspect most of these issues are do to that chipset firmware update, as it changed how routing and healing works, and gave more control directly to the z-wave firmware vs the Vera firmware.

Unfortunately you can't just down grade to this firmware, you also have to ask support to down grade the z-wave chipset firmware, also if you don't have the version of PLEG that works on this firmware you out of luck there too since the current version is not compatible.

Such a shame, things were on the right track with UI7 until that point.  I am hanging out there until they work out the buggy z-wave chipset issues that cause the detect device issues.
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: battars on October 20, 2016, 08:03:31 pm
I've started a fresh install on a VeraPlus on UI7 1.7.1786 and I've got some "Can't Detect Device" problems on battery operated devices like two Everspring HSM02 and a Fibaro FGD221; and some startup crashes some times to times.

As a personal advice, if your UI5 Vera3 is fully functionnal, just wait the resolution of those bugs before upgrade it.

Thanks for the advice. I may end up just running the VeraPlus and the Vera3 simultaneously and independently of each other, unless there's hope that the bugs will be resolved in the near future?

The garage opener device I have requires UI7, and I figured a fresh start would be a good opportunity to start fresh in a much more methodical way, but there's no point in introducing more bugs into the system.

Does the VeraPlus have a "good" firmware version that didn't have all of these device detection issues?
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Shaigan on October 21, 2016, 01:33:23 am
Quote from: battars
Does the VeraPlus have a "good" firmware version that didn't have all of these device detection issues?
I think "no"... ll firmwares are bugged.

Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: shallowearth on October 21, 2016, 02:49:06 am
Unfortunately the Plus shipped with the higher versioned firmware than the Edge so had the problem on day one, that is why mine is still in the box.
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Aaron on October 21, 2016, 09:36:54 am
I figured out why they call it Plus... Plus more bugs, Plus more frustration, Plus it's a great paperweight
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Don Phillips on October 21, 2016, 07:23:19 pm
I just ignore the "can't detect device" on my 2 door sensors. I suspect they go to sleep to save power but will send a signal when the door is opened. It is functioning just fine, but the error can be annoying.
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: rbakley on November 15, 2016, 12:39:31 am
I posted my experience with this issue in the other thread:

http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,36482.0.html


In summary, the conclusion I have come to is that there may be a hardware issue with the Z-wave radio receiver in the Vera Plus.  It is either extremely insensitive, or the Zwave network is not able to route commands effectively.   If it is a hardware issue, it probably won't get fixed with a software update.

I started with a Vera Lite a couple of years ago.   Before I purchased it, I also purchased the parts to add an external antenna and did the mod right away.   I have many battery powered devices and have never encountered a problem with them.   Perhaps the added antenna helped with the Vera Lite.  I don't believe that it is a simple matter to add an external antenna to the Vera Plus and have not looked into doing it.   I pre-ordered the Vera Plus before it was available and have been running it ever since it was released.    I have always had the "Can't Detect Device" error.    I am reluctant to upgrade the firmware on ANY Vera device, I have never had a problem free firmware update.  Currently I am running 1.7.1754.

My solution/work-around is to use an Aeon Labs Aeotec Zwave Extender/Repeater.   It is $28 dollars on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K7QZUZM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I believe the reason it works is because the weaker devices are able to talk to the Extender/Repeater and it in turn relays the messages to the Vera Plus.    I have been using the Extender/Repeater for 3 weeks now and ever since adding it, my system has been error free.    Previously, I had ALWAYS had a problem with the "Can't Detect Device" error.   Nothing I had tried up until now has worked.      Within a couple of hours of adding the repeater, I finally saw the Dashboard's System Status with a :).     I have a small one floor house with a basement and a bedroom located in the attic.    The Vera Plus is located in the center of the house on the first floor.    The Extender was added in the basement and is located only about 10 feet below the Vera Plus.   I imagine that in larger houses more than 1 extender may be required, perhaps one on each floor.   

I would be interested to hear from other people that either already have an Aeon Labs Extender or users that purchase it to add to their systems.    I have no affiliation with Aeon Labs, I am just a happy customer.

-bob
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Sender on November 15, 2016, 12:57:32 am
I posted my experience with this issue in the other thread:

http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,36482.0.html


In summary, the conclusion I have come to is that there may be a hardware issue with the Z-wave radio receiver in the Vera Plus.  It is either extremely insensitive, or the Zwave network is not able to route commands effectively.   If it is a hardware issue, it probably won't get fixed with a software update.

I started with a Vera Lite a couple of years ago.   Before I purchased it, I also purchased the parts to add an external antenna and did the mod right away.   I have many battery powered devices and have never encountered a problem with them.   Perhaps the added antenna helped with the Vera Lite.  I don't believe that it is a simple matter to add an external antenna to the Vera Plus and have not looked into doing it.   I pre-ordered the Vera Plus before it was available and have been running it ever since it was released.    I have always had the "Can't Detect Device" error.    I am reluctant to upgrade the firmware on ANY Vera device, I have never had a problem free firmware update.  Currently I am running 1.7.1754.

My solution/work-around is to use an Aeon Labs Aeotec Zwave Extender/Repeater.   It is $28 dollars on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K7QZUZM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I believe the reason it works is because the weaker devices are able to talk to the Extender/Repeater and it in turn relays the messages to the Vera Plus.    I have been using the Extender/Repeater for 3 weeks now and ever since adding it, my system has been error free.    Previously, I had ALWAYS had a problem with the "Can't Detect Device" error.   Nothing I had tried up until now has worked.      Within a couple of hours of adding the repeater, I finally saw the Dashboard's System Status with a :).     I have a small one floor house with a basement and a bedroom located in the attic.    The Vera Plus is located in the center of the house on the first floor.    The Extender was added in the basement and is located only about 10 feet below the Vera Plus.   I imagine that in larger houses more than 1 extender may be required, perhaps one on each floor.   

I would be interested to hear from other people that either already have an Aeon Labs Extender or users that purchase it to add to their systems.    I have no affiliation with Aeon Labs, I am just a happy customer.

-bob

These can't detect device issues are introduced in UI7. They are on lite, edge and plus. On UI5 I had no issues. Ibam sure it is a firmware issue. This also has been confirmed by MCV to me in several cases and also on this forum in numerous threads.

What disturbs me the most is that in every answer MCV says it will be fixed in "the next firmware", but for about 16 months there was only 1 update...
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: rbakley on November 15, 2016, 01:04:19 am
The only change to my system was the addition of the extender.   I have tried various experiments with placement and changing parameters on the devices with issues.  Nothing helped, the problem has persisted for 7 or 8 months now.  We may have been told it is a firmware issue because they don't want to admit to a hardware issue and have to recall thousands of units.

I would like to see if anyone else duplicates my experience by adding the Extender.    While 28 dollars isn't exactly cheap, it was worth it to me to see if it would help.    My system consists of a wide variety of devices, about 65 in total with probably 70 percent AC powered and 30 percent battery powered.

-bob     
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Sender on November 15, 2016, 01:12:20 am
It could offcourse be a HW error, but again, with UI5 these issues where NOT there on the same hardware.
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: rbakley on November 15, 2016, 01:17:55 am
It could offcourse be a HW error, but again, with UI5 these issues where NOT there on the same hardware.

I ran both UI5 and UI7 on my Vera Lite and did not encounter this issue, so perhaps my external 3db antenna mod helped.    The Vera Plus was released with UI7, so I have not attempted to load UI5 on it, if it would even work.   As I stated previouly I have ALWAYS had an issue with upgrading Vera devices.   I avoid at all costs.

So perhaps there are two issues at play.   A problem with the Zwave routing in UI7 firmware AND a hardware issue on the Vera Plus.   

-bob
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Sender on November 15, 2016, 01:32:12 am
On lite I had the mod as well. No issues on UI5, Yes on UI7.

Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Aaron on November 16, 2016, 11:48:05 am
Not sure what Vera is doing but seems like they aren't doing anything to fix major bugs like this one...
I'll stick with UI5 until I'm ready to move to Homeseer or something else.

I've given up on Vera ever being the great platform they could be
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: shadee on November 16, 2016, 02:47:07 pm
Guys, this issue should be resolved with the today's BETA.

https://goo.gl/rqjyBF

my issues with can't detected with Fibaro devices and general battery operated devices has been resolves.

I did not see any changes at first but an hour later or so, all the can't detect messages gave disappeared. Ofc, I'm talking about devices that are in range and operating. Range issues will still be market with can't detect. I would say this is a legit message now.
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: hax0rmort on December 02, 2016, 02:18:16 am
I pulled my repeater when I installed the beta (I wiped my network)as I had relocated my network block to the center of my home along with the vera box,  I assumed I wouldn't need it along with the mesh.  I'm going to re add it and hopefully see if ANY of my motion sensors start working again,  I'm not hopeful because my wired (USB mains) Multisensor 6 won't even trip/untrip and it's right in front of me!
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Don Phillips on January 01, 2017, 08:07:58 pm
This may not be ideal but I have a DVR plug-in always in error, and 1 of those door sensors. I added this in the startup lua:
luup.set_failure(false,88)
luup.set_failure(false,73)
return true

In my case, device 88 is the DVR, and device 73 is my garage man door sensor. Now, no "can't detect device" error.
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Don Phillips on April 24, 2017, 09:39:58 pm
Today, I set the polling of my 2 battery sensors to default polling (z-wave polling is set to 60) and I have had NO can't detect device errors for a couple of hours.
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: JackTheMan18 on June 20, 2017, 10:32:30 am
Hello Don Phillips.
Did your changes of setting the default polling work?
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Don Phillips on June 20, 2017, 08:10:49 pm
It is better, but I still get the "error" from time to time. No errors at the moment.
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Sig on March 19, 2018, 06:24:03 pm
Bumping this somewhat old thread, as I have been experiencing "Can't Detect Device" issues constantly - I can't remember when they started, but I'm pretty sure they started when I upgraded to Vera Plus.  In any event, I've tried the various suggestions mentioned in this thread, including updating batter device polling and I've also installed two (2) Aeotec repeaters.  Right now, I have three door/window sensors and a Schlage lock, all undetectable.  Normally, this isn't a huge issue because the door/window sensors seem to become detectable as soon as they're tripped (waken up).  However, the Schlage lock has gone red on me and, because of this, today I couldn't add a PIN code to give a repair person access to my back yard - extremely frustrating.

Repeaters? Polling? Firmware updates?  Has this issue been resolved for others (given the last entry here is about nine months old)?  Or are you still experiencing it, and it's yet another of those "quirks" we're forced to live with as Vera users?
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Mai Pensato on March 20, 2018, 04:30:30 am
I still have these errors on my Veraplus. Sometimes the devices still work, sometimes they don't work anymore. So for sure still NOT solved.
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Don Phillips on March 20, 2018, 06:25:15 pm
This was cured on my Vera 3 with the current firmware update.
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Sig on March 22, 2018, 08:45:15 pm
I'm now actually in my weekend home, where I've been having these problems, and it's affecting all my battery-powered devices, _except_ my multisensor.  I just don't understand what's causing this.  My three Aeotec door/window sensors are affected - I've recharged their batteries, and re-tripped them, and they seem to be picked up by Vera for a moment, then the "Can't Detect Device" red banner returns.  The Schlage lock is in the same condition.  Really very frustrating, especially with the lock, for which I depend on remote control.  I'm running the latest firmware on a VeraPlus - I guess I need to call MCV tomorrow and see if we can figure out what's going on.
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: P-a on March 28, 2018, 05:45:50 pm
Hi all,

From what I can tell the "Cant detect device" issue cannot be resolved?

I tried the Aeon Range Extender, but it made no difference whatsoever. I have a Hank Button and a Fibaro Door Window Sensor 2 all working fine. I just have issues with 2 Aeon Multisensor 6.

Will make a final attempt by removing and deleting one of the Multisensors and then add it again. Fingers crossed.....

Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Sig on March 28, 2018, 06:26:41 pm
It was a frustrating weekend, but my "Can't Detect Device" issues seem to have been resolved.

At some point after my post last Thursday, my system became unstable.  It seemed to be in a re-boot loop.  I called Support Friday, and ended up leaving the system open for them all day to investigate/troubleshoot the issue.  I also old them about the Can't Detect Device errors, and it's still not clear if this was related to the issue that de-stabilized my system or not.  I was told that there was "unusual activity on a port that is used by Vera" and that this activity was being initiated by my HP OfficeJet printer (which is also connected to my home network).  I have no clue what my printer would be doing, especially since it's probably in stand-by mode 98% of the time.  I was also told that there was something going on inside one of my plug-ins...the Evolve LCD plug-in.  I've had that plug-in on my system for years now, so what would have changed to create this problem, I don't know.  But after letting Support tinker with my system all day, they apparently resolved the issue by making a code change in the Evolve LCD plug-in, and doing some other things that aren't quite clear to me.  They then told me to "check one of your internet devices with IP address xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx" which turned out to be my VistaCam.  I'm still not sure what they wanted me to "check" - the camera was connected to the network and seemed to be working fine.  Once they were done, all my Can't Detect Device problems stopped, _EXCEPT_ for my Schlage Electronic lock.  I could not get it to respond.  So, I eventually excluded/re-included it, and now it's working fine.  Again, not sure if this was related to the other issue(s) or a separate problem.

Bottom line, for now, my system seems to be back to normal.  But it's mysterious failures like this that continue to reduce my faith in Vera as a long term/stable solution for my home automation needs.  This Vera is in my weekend/vacation home, and it's not merely a convenience, but a necessity. I've had Vera forever, and I've tolerated all sorts of episodes like this, but I can't imagine that more consumer-friendly products (like Wink or SmartThings) are this finicky (or maybe they are too).   
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: jchin on April 14, 2018, 04:57:22 pm
For the last 3 months, I've been having this problem with a Monoprice 4-in-1 motion sensor.  I have even exchanged devices with Monoprice.
Odd thing is ... there are 2 other devices (same make/model) that was previous paired with Vera, and those work.
The device in question is sitting about 2 feet away from the controller and still get this error after about an hour of waking it up with a paperclip push of the pinhole.

Could this be an firmware issue?
Title: Re: "Can't Detect Device" UI7 on ZWave battery devices - root issue identification
Post by: Don Phillips on April 14, 2018, 07:47:49 pm
I had a similar issue for years.  The current firmware seems to have fixed it for my 2 door sensors.