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Advanced => Programming => Plugins & Plugin Development => Topic started by: JOD on April 14, 2011, 04:37:41 pm

Title: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: JOD on April 14, 2011, 04:37:41 pm
What does it take to get the developer applications from here (the forum) to the MM for one click installation? Assuming the Dev's want their code on there.

http://www.micasaverde.com/list-of-apps.php
Quote
The MiOS Market is your one stop shop for any and all plugins that developers have and will write for the any MiOS engine using platform, like Vera. Through the MiOS Market you can add plugins for everything from controlling your house through a smartphone to an IP camera.

The Weather Plugin (by @Guessed)
ADD & DAD (by @Ap15e)
TED (by @Woodsby)
Ping Sensor (by @TedStriker)
Virtual / State Device (by @Ap15e and @denix)

Just to name a few.

JOD.
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: mcvflorin on April 15, 2011, 05:31:28 am
What does it take to get the developer applications from here (the forum) to the MM for one click installation?

The short answer is: patience. :)

And now the long one: Currently it's hard to upload plugins in the marketplace, that's why you see so few. A new section in the marketplace for developers has been in the works for some time, but since it hasn't that much priority, it will take some time to get up and running. When it will be ready, it will allow developers to submit their plugin, so we should see more plugins in the marketplace.
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: aschwalb on April 28, 2011, 03:45:54 pm
How does one log into the MIOS MarketPlace?  I try to but gives me an error....
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: JOD on May 02, 2011, 01:44:13 pm
The short answer is: patience. :)
@mcvflorin, I dont like the short answer.   >:(
Case in point. UI2. Voice Announcements "Coming Soon"  :P

On the serious side, what % of the technical support calls are caused by user error? (we can go to the beta forum to discuss if needed) but If we can lessen the load on support, it will pay dividends in you guys having more resources for bug fixes and development work.

JOD.

Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: TimAlls on May 02, 2011, 01:55:02 pm
I am wondering the same thing.....how many calls do you get from the Newbies trying to write luup code? I have a thread going on a luup code generator to help generate properly formatted code and I am amazed at the lack of response.....this would have paid for itself in support phone calls if you had developed one years ago!
Food for thought.
Tim Alls
AllSeas Yachts
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: Henk on May 08, 2011, 04:19:03 pm
@JOD

Ok i worked over

The Weather Plugin (by @Guessed)
ADD & DAD (by @Ap15e)
Ping Sensor (by @TedStriker, code updated to 1.41, thanks to Ap15e)
Virtual Device (by @?) credits go to @denix and @Ap15e see thread
http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=2495.msg37300#msg37300

And have them running in my vera2 now on 1.1.245

Couldnt do
TED (by @Woodsby) because i dont have a TED

Whats next JOD?
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: JOD on May 08, 2011, 05:17:23 pm
I don't know the protocol for this but, if MCV can't get these plugins to the Mios Marketplace for a while they could possibly be added to http://code.mios.com/account as a next step.
At least everything would be in one place.

JOD.
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: Ap15e on May 09, 2011, 05:21:19 am
There are people (like me) who prefer to not use http://code.mios.com/ as a code repository for their plugins.

I'd like to suggest to create a new wiki page 'Luup plugins/tools' that lists all plugins:

Code: [Select]
Plugin          Purpose        Requirements HW      Requirements SW    Forum link        code.mios.com link        Download link

Not sure about the 'Download link' ...

Many useful plugins are buried in the forum depths ...
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: guessed on May 09, 2011, 11:54:47 am
There already is one on the Wiki, but folks probably don't know to keep it up to date.  Best start off by revising that, then we can link it in the FAQ for this area (a pinned Post) once we get a little further along.
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: Henk on May 09, 2011, 12:14:09 pm
Question at hand is, are we as Ă  user community willing to start to organize our work if MCV doesnt (yet).

My answer (speaking for myself) would be YES!

But then we would need to

a) locate, collect, update and archive all code that is (as Ap15e stated) buried in the forum threads.
b) check the code
c) bring it together on the wiki
d) make it possible (if not already) for users howto download/upload and revise code.
e) keep a check on newly added/changed code

im all for it, as far as i can see, @guessed can support c and d
from what ive learned in my short time around, Ap15e is our most reliable coder making him
best suitable for b and e.

The rest of us can contribute by sifting through the posts to find, collect and package code.

Of course no job is exclusive for anyone mentioned, just a thought to make a start.

Im volunteering for a, testing and writing howto's.

Thats my 2 cents, vera users, get organized!
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: mcvflorin on May 09, 2011, 01:15:53 pm
I attached a list with some of the plugins. It's a bit old and outdated, but a good place to start. It's an HTML file, you'll have to change the extension.
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: Ap15e on May 09, 2011, 01:47:05 pm
I setup a new wiki page at: http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Luup_plugins_and_Luup_code

Please feel free to modify the structure. MCV should assign an unique ID to each plugin. The UID may be used by third party code to detect a specific plugin.
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: Henk on May 09, 2011, 05:05:28 pm
Thanks @Ap15e and @MCVFlorin
This could be a startpoint, but call me crazy, i cant easily (prom the perspective of a new user) up/download from any of these locations.

They are a good referencepoint but need to be integrated into some sort of page users can actually use to not only read, but also interact (e.g up/download to/from)

@guessed, is there such a page readily available?
http://code.mios.com/ could be a starting point, but i dont know who is administering that, is it open for users to add or MCV controlled?

On the practical side:
I have some code downloaded, suppose i want to upload it zipped, where would the best place be to accomplish that in the context of this thread?

Your thoughts guys?

Henk
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: guessed on May 09, 2011, 08:33:28 pm
I setup a new wiki page at: http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Luup_plugins_and_Luup_code

Please feel free to modify the structure. MCV should assign an unique ID to each plugin. The UID may be used by third party code to detect a specific plugin.

Seems like adding a duplicate page to the Wiki just makes it even more cluttered/broken than it already is   8)   Here's the original Luup Plugins page that I referenced before...

    http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Luup_Projects

We can always extend it for a natural layout...  For the most part, the "details" can be out of band wrt the page to avoid it becoming overly cluttered and hard to read, and they can contain more functional labels instead of project names to add more meaning.
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: guessed on May 09, 2011, 09:12:34 pm
@guessed, is there such a page readily available?
http://code.mios.com/ could be a starting point, but i dont know who is administering that, is it open for users to add or MCV controlled?
Personally I like code.mios.com as a centralized spot to download, document and otherwise "review" the complete history of a plugin, without going through tomes of Forums postings, and to provide a degree of consistency in the result.

The earlier parts, including the potential for rich/pictorial documentation and step-by-steps is important to folks who aren't tinkers, since the setup of the larger Plugins can be extensive.  This latter part, to be able to see not only the final product, but it's evolution and bug history/fix history is extremely important for Developers (we all learn by making huge mistakes 8) ).

code.mios.com allowed the community to update the DSC Alarm code when that engineer left.  Had that been a ZIP Attachment to a Forum thread, I would not have touched it with a TFP.   It allowed folks, like @strangely and others, to contribute a ton to it's overall evolution...  Similar things happened to the Phone plugin when it was exposed there, so we've already seen some of the benefits of clear ownership, over time, and community contribution.

I consider it a fairly good custodian/escrow location for code, instructions and downloads.

It's MCV owned/paid for, and accounts and source-control &/or wiki spaces are freely granted by PM'ing @mcvovidiu, which people can do once they exit Newbie status (25+ posts gets you to Sr. Newbie, which is enough to PM).

wiki.micasaverde.com is similarly controlled, but a bit more self-service to initiate, and have a background approval from MCV & Team to stop the spammers.


Anyhow, it's original purpose was to provide a defacto spot for folks not wanting to host their own Source Control, Change-Log, Wiki, File storage etc, etc.  It wasn't intended to be the location, as we all have different ways of working, but it was there as a convenience, and to help provide a centralized catalog of techniques (by example) for those that want to contribute in that manner.


Not everyone is going to use it, so you can only recommend places until the Marketplace is more concrete. 

In the current state, I'd use the [pre-existing] Luup Projects wiki page as the jumping point.  It already points to a number of the original plugins, categorized, and simply needs to be extended to include the newer ones that only exist in the Forums.  I believe the documentation for those plugins, their dependancies (etc) should be put within their respective documentation/wiki/forum pages.

A Sticky, read-only, FAQ post at the top of this Board can point to that page as the single "source of truth" for the existing Plugins.  Over time, that post can be extended to include the other FAQ items that routinely come up... either as direct content, or more likely as pointers to the SoT Posting on the matter.
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: Henk on May 10, 2011, 04:21:58 am
@guessed & @Ap15e

I gave your posts a quick glance with drowsy eyes last night (looong day at work) and i see similarities, focal points and options.

Starting with the list mcvflorin provided, this could really be a good starting point as for available plugins
Can we publish it in the table form as presented by Ap15e in his wiki? (im not a html guru, so im merely exchangings options here to try and find common ground and some momentum here  ::)

I looked at Ap15e's wiki proposal as wel as http://code.mios.com/ and i must agree with @guessed that it seems to result in duplication of info, thus possibly confusing users. I would suggest we agree on one location.

Following that lead i must say i see pro's and cons to both your approaches. The pro's in the case of http://code.mios.com/ are heavy though, since this provides a readily available location with not only the code but also screenshots, evoluation and backlink into the forums.

As @guessed proposed in
Quote
A Sticky, read-only, FAQ post at the top of this Board can point to that page as the single "source of truth" for the existing Plugins.  Over time, that post can be extended to include the other FAQ items that routinely come up... either as direct content, or more likely as pointers to the SoT Posting on the matter.

If we could do the same in moderating the forums (crossreferencing with a hyperlink to the appropriate page on http://code.mios.com/) that would be an improvement.
To make things more consistent that would mean though that the layout of the forums  as well as the code page (categories & sections) would have to be slowly migrated towards a similar layout on both ends (look and feel for users stays the same and feels "like home" .

As @guessed stated, the code page only provides a "degree of consistency"  at the moment and in its current layout could be improved using the tables proposed by @Ap15e on his wiki. That could maybe provide a quick overview from where a link can be clicked to the current applicaple subcode page that is available now. Thus preserving whats there, just presenting it slightly different.

I have no idea if this is feasible and if so how labour intensive it would be, but personally i think its worthwile considering it.

Last but not least, i will PM @mcvovidiu to get acces to the code page and see what else in can contribute there in close coordination with you guys.

@ Guessedl;
Quote
code.mios.com allowed the community to update the DSC Alarm code when that engineer left.  Had that been a ZIP Attachment to a Forum thread, I would not have touched it with a TFP.   It allowed folks, like @strangely and others, to contribute a ton to it's overall evolution...

What is TFP? and why would you not touch is as its simply a warpper for the xml files that contain the code.
I take it from this quote you prefer to publish all files seperately? If so, whats the advantage?

Quote
In the current state, I'd use the [pre-existing] Luup Projects wiki page as the jumping point.  It already points to a number of the original plugins, categorized, and simply needs to be extended to include the newer ones that only exist in the Forums.  I believe the documentation for those plugins, their dependancies (etc) should be put within their respective documentation/wiki/forum pages.

Would this mean that the code page and the wiki LUUP projects page would co-exist? or is it possible to bring the two together like you did in sectioning the forum "LUUP & Development"  where Plugins & plugin development are under the same section as "scene scripting"  and other LUUP projects.

Hope to get feedback and see what we can actually start to DO (in a controlled way)

Henk

Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: Ap15e on May 10, 2011, 04:58:49 am
We do need a quick-reference to all Luup plugins and all Luup code fragments. Very useful plugins and code fragments are scattered all over the forum and are not listed at http://code.mios.com and therefore not easily accessible.



Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: huogas on May 10, 2011, 05:09:16 am
Quote
@ Guessedl;
Quote
code.mios.com allowed the community to update the DSC Alarm code when that engineer left.  Had that been a ZIP Attachment to a Forum thread, I would not have touched it with a TFP.   It allowed folks, like @strangely and others, to contribute a ton to it's overall evolution...

What is TFP? and why would you not touch is as its simply a warpper for the xml files that contain the code.
I take it from this quote you prefer to publish all files seperately? If so, whats the advantage?
Attaching a zip file to a post make the content exclusive to the owner of the post and in a way give him full control on the evolution.
The other way makes the code available to everyone who wants to commit changes to it. The changes are under the community control.
TFP is Ten Foot Pole...Guessed would be concerned about opening a "surprise box" (Zip file) in it's environment (probably not from Ap15e, but that's the general idea)

That's about it...
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: Henk on May 10, 2011, 07:45:41 am
@hugoas

Thanks for the clarification.
If its a security related issue, fine in that case it might be too complicated to add md5 hashes or whatever to determine a file hasnt been tampered with.

So to keep it open its an option for me to provide the code (as far as xml is to be called open).  Imho every file is a container that has its own security issues.
For me the zip container was an option to keep all related files of a build/verzion neatly together and as long as they arent password protected they are not exclusive to me.

Glad i asked about TFP, haha might have mistaken it for a typo where maybe FTP was intendend. Wasnt familiar with the expression.  ;D

In any case providing the code in a standard formatted download (xml or text based, or in whatever form we pick) on a "controlled"  board will improve a lot already since downloads are now sometimes hosted bij filohost services, some bij users themselves (f.i from Google Docs) as posts in many forms in threads etc etc
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: Ap15e on May 10, 2011, 07:46:50 am
While hacking the content of http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Luup_plugins_and_Luup_code I used my spare CPU cycles to think about what is really needed. Here are my results:

Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: JOD on May 10, 2011, 02:52:59 pm
My intention with the OP was to make it easy for all Vera users to have access to these great plugins via the Mios Marketplace. Not all users access this forum and not all that do use this forum are comfortable pulling the pieces together to make a plugin functional.
 
Plan B.
Since the MM is a ways off and no consensus that all the plugins can or should be stored on code.mios.com.
Is it possible to have a section here on the forum where finished work can be placed, locked from reply posts, maybe under the moderators control?
Each posted plugin could then have the various developers’ links to wherever their work may be hosted?
 
JOD.
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: Ap15e on May 10, 2011, 04:47:08 pm
A one click installation of plugins should be the ultimate goal. But: Is Vera ready for a one-click installation of plugins?
Are the plugins ready for a one-click installation?

IMHO, there are too many shortcomings for a one click installation:
Let's take a look at MCV's 'Squeezebox Control' beta plugin. Yes, installation was easy via Marketplace (if the user is using a newer firmware, the user gets redirected to https://marketplace.mios.com/beta-plugins.php: happy searching ...) - but where is the documentation on how to configure and how to use the plugin?

Another example:
If a user would install DAD via a one click installation without reading and understanding the instructions and limitations, the user soon would complain about several bugs in DAD - but chances are, that the 'bugs' are caused by bugs/missing features in MiOS (cf. http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=6052.0, http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=5466.msg31383#msg31383).

Quote
Is it possible to have a section here on the forum where finished work can be placed, locked from reply posts, maybe under the moderators control?

Wouldn't the discussion about bugs and new features be hindered by declaring something as 'finished work' and by locking threads?
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: huogas on May 10, 2011, 07:53:32 pm
@Ap15e

Could you remind me what would be the "problem" if Mios Marketplace was the unique place to offer the plugins ?
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: JOD on May 10, 2011, 08:02:07 pm
A one click installation of plugins should be the ultimate goal. But: Is Vera ready for a one-click installation of plugins?
Are the plugins ready for a one-click installation?
The answer is probably NO to both, but then everything hinges on MCV and not Vera per se...
Quote
IMHO, there are too many shortcomings for a one click installation:
That may be, but my suggestion of an organized area on the forum for your work to be downloaded is a substitute.
Is it possible to have a section here on the forum where finished work can be placed, locked from reply posts, maybe under the moderators control?
Quote
Wouldn't the discussion about bugs and new features be hindered by declaring something as 'finished work' and by locking threads?
Ok, it may not be the correct terminology. Finished as a revision #. 'Semantics' Finished work, published work, wrapped work, zipped work, release, revision, build, whatever you want to call it, you as the developer would have locked the thread just as MCV does when they make their official announcements. When they declare a FW build as an "Official Release" there are no guarantees to it being bug free and plenty of threads pop up discussing the shortcomings.   
My point was. Not to clutter the "Download area" with a multitude of response posts.

There are still the ongoing discussion areas of the plugins, DAD, ADD etc, where something get's reported, you make a change and post an update revision as you normally do only now the only difference is everything is in a certain area of the forum for downloading and it's easy to find, uncluttered, no responses to the locked post. It can be labeled whatever you all decide, "Download area" as an example......

JOD.
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: Henk on May 14, 2011, 09:20:51 am
@JOD,

So what do you advise we use then? Dealing with what is available to us now on the wiki and code page?
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: JOD on May 15, 2011, 02:19:46 pm
My suggestion would be to separate Plugins & Plugin Development into two separate tabs/areas.
 
Plugin Development (for the ongoing development & discussions)
&
Plugins (for locked posts from the developers to their download links)

JOD.
Title: Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
Post by: Henk on May 15, 2011, 02:21:43 pm
My suggestion would be to separate Plugins & Plugin Development into two separate tabs/areas.
 
Plugin Development (for the ongoing development & discussions)
&
Plugins (for locked posts from the developers to their download links)

JOD.

@guessed, would this be achievable?
For already available plugins maybe even post a link there to the code page?
That would create the crossreference i mentioned earlier, form the code page to the forum, and back!