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General => Upgrading => Topic started by: S-F on June 27, 2011, 10:59:01 am

Title: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: S-F on June 27, 2011, 10:59:01 am
The wiki says to reset the z-wave network. Do I also need to manually remove all of the devices first? I have light switches, a Trane thermostat, the smart switch I got with Vera and a Schalge lock. I just moved into a new house and figured that this would be a good time to make the switch but am unsure on exactly how to go about it. Could someone give me a step by step on what to do?

Thanks guys and gals
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: Henk on June 27, 2011, 11:23:28 am
@S-F

No theres no need to remove anything.

Maybe you will need the hack 2.78 to 3.20 option provided in the same tab.

Let me know of you still need a how to...

Henk

The wiki says to reset the z-wave network. Do I also need to manually remove all of the devices first? I have light switches, a Trane thermostat, the smart switch I got with Vera and a Schalge lock. I just moved into a new house and figured that this would be a good time to make the switch but am unsure on exactly how to go about it. Could someone give me a step by step on what to do?

Thanks guys and gals
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: S-F on June 27, 2011, 02:18:10 pm
Well, I did it. I checked "use 3.2" and then after it finished it process and the popup showed that it was on 3.2 I hit the GO button next to reset z-wave network.  I came back 10 minutes later and all of my devices and scenes were still there. I thought this was supposed to wipe all that out?
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: Henk on June 27, 2011, 02:26:20 pm
@S-F

No, it just "resets" your Z-wave device with a possible heal after that.
Anyway, congratulations on 3,20L

Hope it will work for you too

Well, I did it. I checked "use 3.2" and then after it finished it process and the popup showed that it was on 3.2 I hit the GO button next to reset z-wave network.  I came back 10 minutes later and all of my devices and scenes were still there. I thought this was supposed to wipe all that out?
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: S-F on June 27, 2011, 03:11:28 pm
OOOOOOOHHhhhhh. Had I known that I'd have done it a while ago. What's up with the hack then? IMO this whole Z-wave firmware upgrade isn't documented as clearly as it probably should be.
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: Henk on June 27, 2011, 03:30:55 pm
@S-F

Have you seen this?
http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Migrate_To_Z-wave_version_452

OOOOOOOHHhhhhh. Had I known that I'd have done it a while ago. What's up with the hack then? IMO this whole Z-wave firmware upgrade isn't documented as clearly as it probably should be.
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: S-F on June 27, 2011, 03:58:57 pm
Yeah I saw that. But my interpretation of:

Quote
Officially you have to reset your Z-Wave network and rebuild your network from scratch. While this is not an issue for a new user or a really small network, some Vera users have large Z-Wave networks already setup with lots of scenes and will not want to redo everything.

Was that all of my scenes and devices would no longer be there. Am I misunderstanding something? Apparently so.
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: JOD on June 27, 2011, 04:36:36 pm
@S-F,

The "Hack to convert"scenario is if you dont want to rebuild the network.

If you only have a limited network it's safer (possibilty of corrupting data) to build the 3.20 network from scratch. If you build from scratch, Reset Z-Wave network anyway, this will produce a new House ID and start you with a clean slate. You will have to unpair all your devices in order to include them again.

JOD.
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: S-F on June 27, 2011, 04:52:50 pm
@S-F,

The "Hack to convert"scenario is if you dont want to rebuild the network.

If you only have a limited network it's safer (possibilty of corrupting data) to build the 3.20 network from scratch. If you build from scratch, Reset Z-Wave network anyway, this will produce a new House ID and start you with a clean slate. You will have to unpair all your devices in order to include them again.

JOD.

OK. So the fact that my devices and scenes are still there is normal and I need to manually remove everything? Is there a guide on how to unpair devices?
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: Henk on June 27, 2011, 04:56:03 pm
@S-F

Or you simply use the Hack to convert scenario first...
Unpairing is described in the manual of your z-wave devices.

Generally it is the same procedure as pairing the device to Vera, but inverted (or even exactly the same)
for instance tapping a tamper switch 3 times...)

Note, unpairing the device can be done without Vera.

@S-F,

The "Hack to convert"scenario is if you dont want to rebuild the network.

If you only have a limited network it's safer (possibilty of corrupting data) to build the 3.20 network from scratch. If you build from scratch, Reset Z-Wave network anyway, this will produce a new House ID and start you with a clean slate. You will have to unpair all your devices in order to include them again.

JOD.

OK. So the fact that my devices and scenes are still there is normal and I need to manually remove everything? Is there a guide on how to unpair devices?

Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: oTi@ on June 28, 2011, 01:53:55 am
[...]Is there a guide on how to unpair devices?
Typically: instead of choosing 'include'/'add', choose 'exclude'/'remove' on Vera, then hit the button on the device you used to include it originally.

(For some devices, you put them in include/exclude mode first, then choose include/exclude on Vera).

If the device was successfully excluded, it shouldn't show up in the GUI anymore.
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: strangely on June 30, 2011, 02:31:55 am

OK. So the fact that my devices and scenes are still there is normal and I need to manually remove everything? Is there a guide on how to unpair devices?


IIRC from when I first went over to 3.20, everything will work fine without the hack... and everything will appear normal until you try to include or exclude a new device! I believe this is explained in the WiKi page, but not clear.

Using the hack, purely attempts to fix the include/exclude problem.
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: Henk on June 30, 2011, 04:07:33 am
@Strangely

Also for you, rather than claiming the wiki is unclear at certain points (which it is!), what do you think needs to be improved on the specifick page/subject?

Let me know so i can modify it...


OK. So the fact that my devices and scenes are still there is normal and I need to manually remove everything? Is there a guide on how to unpair devices?


IIRC from when I first went over to 3.20, everything will work fine without the hack... and everything will appear normal until you try to include or exclude a new device! I believe this is explained in the WiKi page, but not clear.

Using the hack, purely attempts to fix the include/exclude problem.
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: strangely on June 30, 2011, 03:30:56 pm
Lol its not too bad compared to other pages that were written, but I remember the first time I read it, it wasn't very clear to me.

I haven't got too much time the re-author it completely, but given your expert writing skills, and the great job you've on others, I think you would make good job of it!

My suggestions are:

I would go somewhere along the lines of removing a lot of the content that distracts the users attention. Its way too wordy and you cant see the meat very well, or whats important.

It only needs a brief introduction that explains 3.20 is an option with Vera versions 1.1.1221 and up, and that this version supports has a better routing algorithm, and a snappier response, but there are some risks... and should perhaps only be used if the user is having an issue with the current 2.78 branch and is not worried about losing the ability to include from a secondary controller* ( see below)

If a user wants to proceed then make a warning about making a backup (including a dongle backup) first.

Explain that there are two paths to update, as currently the instructions section only references the upgrade option / hack, where the other instructions for a clean load are currently buried in the introduction blurb and would be missed if the person skipped to the instructions section.

Upgrade Path 1: where a user wants clean their Vera and start from scratch (reference the relevant section numbers etc)
Upgrade Path 2 where a user wants to upgrade and keep their configuration (reference the relevant section numbers etc)
-After updating you can explain that Vera will appear to be working fine; however Inclusion and exclusion will not function correctly unless the hack is run.

* Also a more detailed reference near the end that explains the (SUC/SIS) stuff a bit more in depth, and what Vera will present to you once successively upgraded.
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: S-F on June 30, 2011, 04:34:19 pm
I agree completely with Strangely! Look at all the confusion I've had. And my reading comprehension is not sub par. From what I currently understand the "official" method to upgrade is to:
Select "Use Z-Wave version 3.20 instead of 2.78"
Hit the GO button for "Reset Z-Wave network"
Then manually unpair all devices.

Correct?

The current wiki entry specifically states that the "Reset Z-Wave network" function will wipe everything, which apparently is not true.
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: Henk on June 30, 2011, 05:05:48 pm
Thank you for the input...*smile*
ive got 2 or 3 of these lined up, trying to create an other from scratch on USB swapfiling, trying to get the hang of some luup code and keeping the family happy when im not at work, but ill give the re-authoring a shot for for sure this weekend if i can find half an hour or so anywhere...

;-)
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: strangely on June 30, 2011, 07:43:48 pm
I agree completely with Strangely! Look at all the confusion I've had. And my reading comprehension is not sub par. From what I currently understand the "official" method to upgrade is to:
Select "Use Z-Wave version 3.20 instead of 2.78"
Hit the GO button for "Reset Z-Wave network"
Then manually unpair all devices.

Correct?

The current wiki entry specifically states that the "Reset Z-Wave network" function will wipe everything, which apparently is not true.
Looks like you are confused :)

I think the reset Zwave network will reset everything, and you will need to exclude all your devices and then re-include, and set it all up again!

So in simplistic terms, if you don't want to start from scratch you just need to enable the 3.20 check-box
Save
wait a while for the firmware to be flashed (it will show 3.20 once completed)
Reboot
Run the hack.
And then maybe reboot again.
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: S-F on July 01, 2011, 11:26:39 am
Looks like you are confused :)

I think the reset Zwave network will reset everything, and you will need to exclude all your devices and then re-include, and set it all up again!

So in simplistic terms, if you don't want to start from scratch you just need to enable the 3.20 check-box
Save
wait a while for the firmware to be flashed (it will show 3.20 once completed)
Reboot
Run the hack.
And then maybe reboot again.


Eh?

I hit "reset z-wave network" and everything is still there.
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: strangely on July 01, 2011, 11:36:16 am
Per the release notes in the Wiki there appears to be a bug in the released version, which a fix is in testing for.
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: Henk on July 02, 2011, 12:39:55 pm
@strangely

Wiki update. feedback is appreciated!

http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Migrate_To_Z-wave_version_452

Lol its not too bad compared to other pages that were written, but I remember the first time I read it, it wasn't very clear to me.

I haven't got too much time the re-author it completely, but given your expert writing skills, and the great job you've on others, I think you would make good job of it!

My suggestions are:

I would go somewhere along the lines of removing a lot of the content that distracts the users attention. Its way too wordy and you cant see the meat very well, or whats important.

It only needs a brief introduction that explains 3.20 is an option with Vera versions 1.1.1221 and up, and that this version supports has a better routing algorithm, and a snappier response, but there are some risks... and should perhaps only be used if the user is having an issue with the current 2.78 branch and is not worried about losing the ability to include from a secondary controller* ( see below)

If a user wants to proceed then make a warning about making a backup (including a dongle backup) first.

Explain that there are two paths to update, as currently the instructions section only references the upgrade option / hack, where the other instructions for a clean load are currently buried in the introduction blurb and would be missed if the person skipped to the instructions section.

Upgrade Path 1: where a user wants clean their Vera and start from scratch (reference the relevant section numbers etc)
Upgrade Path 2 where a user wants to upgrade and keep their configuration (reference the relevant section numbers etc)
-After updating you can explain that Vera will appear to be working fine; however Inclusion and exclusion will not function correctly unless the hack is run.

* Also a more detailed reference near the end that explains the (SUC/SIS) stuff a bit more in depth, and what Vera will present to you once successively upgraded.
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: S-F on July 02, 2011, 07:33:33 pm
It's organized much more elegantly I must say. Much more clear. One bone to pick though. The procedure for removing devices isn't clearly stated for method #1. There should also be a link to a wiki entry describing how this works.

Thanks for all your work on the wiki! If it was more comprehensive there would be less posts in the forum and less need for news, like me, to spend hours sifting through different threads that might or might not have the answer I'm looking for.
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: strangely on July 02, 2011, 09:40:35 pm
Good Job @Henk!
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: Henk on July 03, 2011, 02:38:16 am
@S-F

There is a page on the wiki on this. How to set your Vera to factory defaults.
You can find it here: http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Factory_Reset

Let me know if that works for you and i can tie it in to the inital discussed page.
Please note, someone made this page and intended to add screenshots so it might look a bit strange.

I generally avoud doin this as it takes a LOT of time and UI's change form time to time with MCV so it would take a redo. But thats off topic here.

Best,
Henk
It's organized much more elegantly I must say. Much more clear. One bone to pick though. The procedure for removing devices isn't clearly stated for method #1. There should also be a link to a wiki entry describing how this works.

Thanks for all your work on the wiki! If it was more comprehensive there would be less posts in the forum and less need for news, like me, to spend hours sifting through different threads that might or might not have the answer I'm looking for.
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: oTi@ on July 03, 2011, 11:52:28 am
One bone to pick though. The procedure for removing devices isn't clearly stated for method #1. There should also be a link to a wiki entry describing how this works.
@S-F,

Agreed; thanks for bringing up that it isn't clear. The device exclusion (or, alternatively, device reset) steps should be added, and the actual reset of the network could be a separate step too.

Between the non-working reset with .1245/3.20 (it appears) and the incomplete information, things are probably thoroughly confusing indeed.

To verify, I just went through a backup/downgrade/reset/upgrade/restore cycle. Which works (but does seem tricky). Luckily. :) I'll update the page at some point (would like to run some more tests first).
Title: Re: Question on 3.2 upgrade
Post by: Henk on July 03, 2011, 12:06:00 pm
@oTi@

Let us know your findings and keep in mind the page was originated by MCV.
I only modded it to clarify the hard to read bits.

If we start to edit the instructions it might be usefull to discuss that with @mcvflorin or @mcv.Eugen?

One bone to pick though. The procedure for removing devices isn't clearly stated for method #1. There should also be a link to a wiki entry describing how this works.
@S-F,

Agreed; thanks for bringing up that it isn't clear. The device exclusion (or, alternatively, device reset) steps should be added, and the actual reset of the network could be a separate step too.

Between the non-working reset with .1245/3.20 (it appears) and the incomplete information, things are probably thoroughly confusing indeed.

To verify, I just went through a backup/downgrade/reset/upgrade/restore cycle. Which works (but does seem tricky). Luckily. :) I'll update the page at some point (would like to run some more tests first).