Author Topic: Line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat  (Read 48165 times)

Offline CaSA

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Re: Line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2014, 06:38:12 pm »
**** drumroll ****

Ladies and gentlemen, the long wait is coming to an end... We have launched our Kickstarter campaign for Caleo, our connected line-voltage thermostat and it's now available for pre-order at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/casa/caleo-the-line-voltage-smart-thermostat

While this conversation started with a Z-Wave enabled device, Caleo runs on Wi-Fi as it was a much more market-friendly protocol. Work is still ongoing with proprietary protocols and we would like to hear from you if you feel the Wi-Fi version doesn't cut it for you.

In the meantime, enjoy our hard work, the world's first and only line-voltage smart thermostat !

Offline Ninja robot from space

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Re: Line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2014, 07:00:08 pm »
Looks very nice. What do you mean by developing commercial APIs for Demand-Response softwares? Is the Vera hub part of these?

Offline CaSA

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Re: Line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2014, 08:40:42 pm »
Yes and no :)
Vera is not part of the commercial APIs this sentence refers to, but developing plugins for HAN gateways is definitely on the todo list. It was part of our secondary objectives, but if people keep asking for it we'll move it up on the list !

The "commercial APIs" we refer to are part of the business model and revenue stream we are trying to create  : we can't run this for free forever, but we can't - and won't - sell your personal info for revenue. Becoming an asset in a demand-reponse or load-shifting system is how we plan to be successful and keep offering our cloud service for free.

Offline spud

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Re: Line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2014, 08:49:49 pm »
very nice! I have been waiting for something like this for a long time. Thanks to make it happen.

Will there be a non-cloud API, i.e a way to connect directly to the thermostat?

Offline peterluc8080

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Re: Line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2014, 08:58:19 pm »
Wonderful new!! :D I have the same question as spud. Are we gonna be able to control the thermostat directly without the could api? Like by sending requests directly over home wifi network? If yes, then we can just create a plugin and it will be perfect!!

To have connected thermostat is one thing, but to have it control from Vera and setup scene with it is the goal!

If you answer yes, I will buy the 5 thermostats kit right away on kickstarter!!

Oh, and by the way, I live in Laval, that not too far from Bromont! :)

Envoy? de mon Z30 en utilisant Tapatalk

Offline Ninja robot from space

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Re: Line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2014, 09:19:05 pm »
Becoming an asset in a demand-reponse or load-shifting system is how we plan to be successful and keep offering our cloud service for free.
I actually think it a good thing provided that utilities like Hydro-Quebec will compensate customers willing to be part of it. Any ideas how it could work?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 09:21:49 pm by lodup29 »

Offline sturgeon86

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Re: Line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2014, 11:38:55 am »
I think few of us are waiting for the answer, can it be controlled from Vera. If so I will grab one or two for sure.
T1000 please answer to this question.

Thanks

Offline CaSA

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Re: Line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2014, 08:39:24 pm »
There are two answers to this question : the configuration and provisioning app allows for a custom server location to be specified. One could replace CaSA's server with his own and given that the server has the proper config, the devices would respond. At this time, this scenario poses a serious encryption and security issue we're not yet sure how to handle. Everything we do is guided by the need for proper security - not exactly something home automation is famous for - and there are scenarios where exposure reaches an unacceptable level. I can't comment on Vera's case specifically as I am not a programmer, but it's evaluation is on the to do list.

The second answer is the one that should satisfy most users : we plan on developing plugins to have a user's HAN gateway interact with our servers to send and receive commands. This is a better scenario as it maintains the dual layer encryption between the device and server and it allows the user to leverage much more advanced features, that would possibly be impractical to implement directly on the HAN gateway. This development was identified as a secondary funding objective, but since there has already been a number of request I see that this may get fastforwarded up the list...

Hope this answers the question !

Offline CaSA

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Re: Line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2014, 08:44:48 pm »
lodup29, you're seeing right into it :)
We are already working with a utility company and it's DR software manufacturer so that Caleo becomes part of their assets. The system is based on a multi-level opt-in scenario by the home owner i.e. you may opt-in for the general DR program for a small compensation but choose to refuse regular events and only accept unscheduled events for example. Keep in mind that this type of control leverages the thermodynamics of a house, so the utility is not saying "it's gonna be 15 degrees in your house". They're saying "hold-off keeping up to 21 degrees for the next 5 minutes" meaning the home owner will likely never even notice a DR event. Caleo displays a special icon during DR events so that it is visible one has happened.

Offline peterluc8080

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Re: Line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2014, 09:08:04 pm »
Thanks T1000 for the updates!

I will wait until the last few days of the campaign to decide if I buy or no the 5 thermostats bundle.

Envoy? de mon Z30 en utilisant Tapatalk


Offline CaSA

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Re: Line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2014, 10:17:55 pm »
Thanks peterluc8080. You know, if we fail our funding objectives, Kickstarter won't charge your credit card, so there's no risk involved. You'll know in three weeks if you bought them or not, but if you make the commitment now, it'll be that much more help to reach our objective ! Every little bit counts...

Thanks !

Martin

Offline Ninja robot from space

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Re: Line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2014, 01:08:18 pm »
There are two answers to this question : the configuration and provisioning app allows for a custom server location to be specified. One could replace CaSA's server with his own and given that the server has the proper config, the devices would respond. At this time, this scenario poses a serious encryption and security issue we're not yet sure how to handle. Everything we do is guided by the need for proper security - not exactly something home automation is famous for - and there are scenarios where exposure reaches an unacceptable level. I can't comment on Vera's case specifically as I am not a programmer, but it's evaluation is on the to do list.

The second answer is the one that should satisfy most users : we plan on developing plugins to have a user's HAN gateway interact with our servers to send and receive commands. This is a better scenario as it maintains the dual layer encryption between the device and server and it allows the user to leverage much more advanced features, that would possibly be impractical to implement directly on the HAN gateway. This development was identified as a secondary funding objective, but since there has already been a number of request I see that this may get fastforwarded up the list...

Hope this answers the question !
So as of now there's a chance that the remote control of these thermostats will rely entirely on a proprietary cloud service? Honestly I don't feel confident enough in a kick-starter ability to guarantee that the cloud service will be available one year from now. If you can provide an open web service API to directly control these thermostats then I'm in. Customers should decide to enable it or not from the touchscreen local user interface. I feel that the link to the web-based cloud service would be at least as weak (encryption-wise) as the link to talk directly to a HTTPS server running on the thermostat with personal certificates.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 02:41:23 pm by lodup29 »

Offline peterluc8080

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Re: Line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2014, 01:20:50 pm »
I'm thinking the same as lodup29... I dont want to buy it to found out one year later that I cant control it thru Vera and if by that time a new product goes on sale, I will be I will I will not swear... I will wait.


Offline mitnick29

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Re: Line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2014, 03:23:07 pm »
I think the same, if i can't control it from vera..it's not good for me. I passed 1 year to make my own android interface for my home automation to control light, pool, energy monitor, etc...If i can't integrate this thermostat to my system...i pass. I need 11 thermostats, i want all of my thermostats react with other hardware. (Window sensor, door lock..etc)

Offline Ninja robot from space

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Re: Line-voltage baseboard heater thermostat
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2014, 03:33:44 pm »
I think the same, if i can't control it from vera..it's not good for me. I passed 1 year to make my own android interface for my home automation to control light, pool, energy monitor, etc...If i can't integrate this thermostat to my system...i pass. I need 11 thermostats, i want all of my thermostats react with other hardware. (Window sensor, door lock..etc)
Well I think that it's very likely that you'll be able to. The issue is that the Vera hub will talk to a cloud server which will talk back to your thermostat. Developing a Vera plugin to talk to the cloud service is likely fairly straightforward and I'm sure these guys will come up with it by the end of the year. The issue for me is what's left of my thermostats if these guys go out of business? These thermostats become nothing more than fancy touchscreen enabled locally programmable thermostat?