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Author Topic: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email  (Read 88255 times)

Offline kigmatzomat

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #120 on: January 19, 2015, 11:40:20 pm »
, but I'd be curious as to what you think the "magic" number is, from your personal experience.
At a minimum for a pro device, it would need to be 512mb ram. However it's not uncommon to see embedded device like the Raspberry Pi, Odroid C2, BeagleBone Black with that amount or even more. If history has shown us anything, we are seeing many users run into memory issues due to having plugins that add up over time.

- Garrett

A Motorola 360 smart watch has 512mb ram for comparison.

Offline integlikewhoa

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #121 on: January 20, 2015, 12:13:01 am »
, but I'd be curious as to what you think the "magic" number is, from your personal experience.
At a minimum for a pro device, it would need to be 512mb ram. However it's not uncommon to see embedded device like the Raspberry Pi, Odroid C2, BeagleBone Black with that amount or even more. If history has shown us anything, we are seeing many users run into memory issues due to having plugins that add up over time.

- Garrett

A Motorola 360 smart watch has 512mb ram for comparison.

And my Phone has 3GB of Ram (Samsung Note 4).

VERA needs more RAM

Offline konradwalsh

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #122 on: January 20, 2015, 05:20:26 am »
Id happily pay for the extra memory!!



I think this is a key point.. You can all shoot me if you wish.. but the VeraEdge is too cheap... how much would have it cost the manufacturer to put in two gb of ram? I would have happily paid more with more power on board

Marc Shenker

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #123 on: January 20, 2015, 09:29:05 am »
You have been heard. I'll make sure that those who need to hear this feedback get it and I will make sure that I deliver it with the passion and importance that you are conveying. 

Offline chixxi

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #124 on: January 23, 2015, 08:17:46 am »
It will not be a quick fix. It will not be without significant effort. At all levels within the organization. But it will happen.
Yes yes, heard the same thing many time during the last few years, but you haven't achieved anything you promised.

If you can email me your ship to address in the next 90 min our so, I'll have your controller ship out today. It's a small step, but it's a start towards reestablishing trust.
What am I supposed to do with another pocket-calculator? Continue to work for free for you?! Contact me once you have a software which is stable on a device which actually brings some performance.

I have unpublished my plugins today.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 09:26:08 am by chixxi »
Developer of Plugins: Virtual Switch, Variable Container, Popcorn Hour Remote, Vacation Ghost. => PLUGINS HAVE BEEN UNPUBLISHED BY ME.

Offline ddluk

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #125 on: January 23, 2015, 09:32:21 am »
I'm reading this whole conversation from begging but was not taking part in it because I didn't publish my plugins and application yet so I'm not so advanced developer as you. The reason why I decided to take part in this discussion is situation in which Micasa Verde/Vera Inc. is right know here. I used to work as a developer evangelist (now I'm working with enterprise partners) in big corporation and was responsible for cooperation with developer studios/single developers/students and companies willing to write software for our devices. Before I joined those corporation my point of view regarding releasing software updates, devices, APIs was dramatically different then after joining company. I remember a lot of conversations with developers with questions why you can't release this, why we need to wait for this APIs, why you are going to remove support for this. A lot of questions which I totally understood because I was asking them before I was inside. You need to remember that even they are working on some devices, APIs, new technologies, solutions they are not able to communicate all information to you because just around the corner they are other companies who are waiting for those info to use it for their future development and devices release.

I understand your frustration (I'm also using UI7) but they are situations and times likes this during which we as a developers need to be strong and supportive to effort that company is giving to fix issues and changes processes which were wrong (even they are not able to communicate a lot regarding changes). It will take time but probably at the end we will see a difference. I'm giving my credits to Vera and will see how the future will looks like.

Offline chixxi

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #126 on: January 23, 2015, 09:39:18 am »
...but they are situations and times likes this during which we as a developers need to be strong and supportive to effort that company is giving to fix issues and changes processes which were wrong (even they are not able to communicate a lot regarding changes)
I completly agree with you, but you are talking about business relationships. This is not true for me as a developer who has been ignored 3 years and has not a single benefit in developping for this platform.

It will take time but probably at the end we will see a difference.
I would have written the exact same thing, 3 years ago. But nothing happened during this years. All improvements which were achieved during this time have been done by third-party developpers.
Developer of Plugins: Virtual Switch, Variable Container, Popcorn Hour Remote, Vacation Ghost. => PLUGINS HAVE BEEN UNPUBLISHED BY ME.

Offline ddluk

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #127 on: January 23, 2015, 09:51:17 am »
It was not only about business relationships but also about normal cooperation between developer and company. Do you think that Vera competitors are supporting developers in different ways? I don't think so. I spent some time reading Fibaro forum regarding development, issues, solutions and APIs and what I saw was totally different from what we've got here. They (Fibaro) are not trying to solve problems but rather they are saying that user is doing it wrong or developer is developing something which is not usable. I'm not here as long as you so I can't comment past experience but from what I see right I can say that they are working on changes but it will takes time. I think we (developers) should give them few more months to allow them repair UI7, implement proper developer communication ways and arrange proper cooperation between us and them.

One more thing - you need to remember that there are people at the top of the company who are making decisions (above Marc and Colin) - I think they already realized what happened that's why we see recent changes.

Offline TC1

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #128 on: January 23, 2015, 10:03:27 am »

One more thing - you need to remember that there are people at the top of the company who are making decisions (above Marc and Colin) - I think they already realized what happened that's why we see recent changes.

What recent changes? Talk is cheap. They've shipped out some developer Vera units, that's it.

I suspect they changed to a Agile product development model a few months ago when they started to release UI7 firmware updates near the beginning of each month. I'm guessing they are using 4-week sprints. Looks like they are going to miss a January release. Agile dictates you release on time, no matter what, even if all planned features do not make it in the current release. My point is, they can't even follow through on this.

Doesn't matter if you're new here, all one has to do is read the history, it's all documented in the forums here.

And all because another company has bad practices that makes it alright for this company? Puhleeze. That sounds like 5-year old child logic.

The other shoe has dropped, I'm sad to say. Chixxi pulling his plug-ins is a huge negative to this product. Now it's time for MCV to step up and offer to buy them to get them back into the marketplace. Like I said, talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words, and the users/developers here are starting to vote with their feet and dollars.

Offline chixxi

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #129 on: January 23, 2015, 10:04:41 am »
It was not only about business relationships but also about normal cooperation between developer and company. Do you think that Vera competitors are supporting developers in different ways? I don't think so. I spent some time reading Fibaro forum regarding development, issues, solutions and APIs and what I saw was totally different from what we've got here. They (Fibaro) are not trying to solve problems but rather they are saying that user is doing it wrong or developer is developing something which is not usable. I'm not here as long as you so I can't comment past experience but from what I see right I can say that they are working on changes but it will takes time. I think we (developers) should give them few more months to allow them repair UI7, implement proper developer communication ways and arrange proper cooperation between us and them.

You really don't seem to have any experience with Vera Control Ltd. How do you come to believe that they will fix UI7 in a few month when they haven't fixed any UI since they are existing? Well, I wish you good luck and lots of energy making the same experiences I have made during the last few years.

One more thing - you need to remember that there are people at the top of the company who are making decisions (above Marc and Colin) - I think they already realized what happened that's why we see recent changes.
Lol, which changes? Do you mean that VeraLowerEdge?
Developer of Plugins: Virtual Switch, Variable Container, Popcorn Hour Remote, Vacation Ghost. => PLUGINS HAVE BEEN UNPUBLISHED BY ME.

Offline ddluk

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #130 on: January 23, 2015, 10:19:55 am »
I'm talking from my point of view and yes, I don't have a lot of experience with them but you are missing so of the points.


You really don't seem to have any experience with Vera Control Ltd. How do you come to believe that they will fix UI7 in a few month when they haven't fixed any UI since they are existing? Well, I wish you good luck and lots of energy making the same experiences I have made during the last few years.

One more thing - you need to remember that there are people at the top of the company who are making decisions (above Marc and Colin) - I think they already realized what happened that's why we see recent changes.
Lol, which changes? Do you mean that VeraLowerEdge?

You are looking on those device from your perspective from power user who want to implement a lot of stuff, use a lot of plugins and do everything yourself but you need to remember about single users who just want to use this device to switch off the lights or close the blinds - yes this kind of users also exists - I know one of them who is my friend - he don't need more, just basic things for which he will be using his mobile application. So do you want to sell this person $900 device which he never will use in 100%? From my perspective Vera Edge is a replacement for Vera Lite and we will see more powerful devices during this year.




One more thing - you need to remember that there are people at the top of the company who are making decisions (above Marc and Colin) - I think they already realized what happened that's why we see recent changes.

What recent changes? Talk is cheap. They've shipped out some developer Vera units, that's it.

I suspect they changed to a Agile product development model a few months ago when they started to release UI7 firmware updates near the beginning of each month. I'm guessing they are using 4-week sprints. Looks like they are going to miss a January release. Agile dictates you release on time, no matter what, even if all planned features do not make it in the current release. My point is, they can't even follow through on this.

Doesn't matter if you're new here, all one has to do is read the history, it's all documented in the forums here.

And all because another company has bad practices that makes it alright for this company? Puhleeze. That sounds like 5-year old child logic.

The other shoe has dropped, I'm sad to say. Chixxi pulling his plug-ins is a huge negative to this product. Now it's time for MCV to step up and offer to buy them to get them back into the marketplace. Like I said, talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words, and the users/developers here are starting to vote with their feet and dollars.

I didn't say that because other company has bad practices it's ok for them to act the same. I said that there is a lot of things to do which other companies don't know that they need to do. We see small step from Vera which is providing Vera Edges devices for development and probably we will see much more soon.

Regarding Chixxi plugins - it's bad situation and I can't discuss it from MCV perspective. Now it's time for them to act and we will see what will happen.

Offline ServiceXp

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #131 on: January 23, 2015, 12:52:20 pm »
I'm talking from my point of view and yes, I don't have a lot of experience with them but you are missing so of the points.

No, I think it is you who are missing the point.  I'm by no means a "power user" but i can tell you there is NO way I would have ever kept my Vera if it were not for developers like chixxi building solutions for what should be, in many cases, already implemented in the basic firmware for a company of this age.

I don't want this to sound like I'm attacking you, but Vera gained it's success IMO on the backs of developers like chixxi.
U.S.A Vera 3

Offline ddluk

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #132 on: January 23, 2015, 01:06:05 pm »
Sure, I understand your point of view and this why I'm also using Vera for my home automation and not other solutions but I'm trying to understand what Vera is trying to achieve. I remember post from Colin who wrote:

Quote
To that end, we're rolling out a new account based user designation feature this quarter that will help to improve the process. It allows power users to "opt in" to displaying all the "advanced" features, while the "standard" user designation leaves much of the highly technical underpinnings safely obfuscated from laymen users. This way each user segment has a more custom tailored experience, based on their specific wants and needs, without diluting or adversely affecting the other.

So basically they want to bring also some general home automation users to their platform.

Offline intveltr

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #133 on: January 23, 2015, 01:28:12 pm »
I'm by no means a "power user" but i can tell you there is NO way I would have ever kept my Vera if it were not for developers like chixxi building solutions for what should be, in many cases, already implemented in the basic firmware for a company of this age.

Indeed.  A lot of the functionality offered by plugins might not be something I'd expect in the firmware, but at least the ability for the community to develop these plugins should be there (+1 for Vera), as well as the support from the manufacturer to the developers, in the form of assistance, proper documentation, bug trackers, etc.  I still recommend Vera to friends, but it is mostly because it supports a TON of devices outside of the Z-wave sphere.  But it only does so courtesy of the community developers.
HomeWave is available in the App Store!  Turn your iPhone/iPad into an easy-to-use remote control for Vera.

Offline Colin Burke McClure

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #134 on: January 23, 2015, 04:16:11 pm »
It will not be a quick fix. It will not be without significant effort. At all levels within the organization. But it will happen.
Yes yes, heard the same thing many time during the last few years, but you haven't achieved anything you promised.

If you can email me your ship to address in the next 90 min our so, I'll have your controller ship out today. It's a small step, but it's a start towards reestablishing trust.
What am I supposed to do with another pocket-calculator? Continue to work for free for you?! Contact me once you have a software which is stable on a device which actually brings some performance.

I have unpublished my plugins today.
This is most unfortunate news. We're truly sorry to see you go chixxi. You and your contributions will be sorely missed.

We'd love to keep your plugins in play for the community in your absence. I'll just emailed you privately to discuss.

We hope we'll see you again one day, as we continue to make the platform, product, and process improvements discussed over the coming weeks and months.

In the interim, best of luck to you in your future endeavors and look forward to your return.
Cheers,

Colin Burke McClure
SVP Product & Innovation

MiOS  *  Puts You in Control
www.mios.com  *  colin@mios.com  *  +1 (888) 510-6467