Author Topic: New problem - intermittent lights flicker on the lsm-15 Evolve switch  (Read 1899 times)

Offline WhiteBeard

  • Sr. Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: +1/-0
Hi All,

I've had the lsm-15 switch controlling my porch lights for about 3 years with no problems.  Just light week I noticed that when turning on the lights, they will lose power for a second or so and then will continue to do so at intermittently.  More strangely, turning the switch (ON) will sometimes also momentarily trigger the horn on my parked car.  Just curious if anyone here has experienced similar problems or if this means it's time to replace the switch?

WB

Offline Z-Waver

  • Master Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 4407
  • Karma: +241/-120
More strangely, turning the switch (ON) will sometimes also momentarily trigger the horn on my parked car.
That is hilarious! I have no idea how your switch is affecting your car horn.

If rebooting the switch, by flipping the breaker, doesn't make it work correctly, then I would replace the switch. It sounds like the switch contacts are bad, likely carbon-ed up.

Offline TC1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1088
  • Karma: +90/-88
Hi All,

I've had the lsm-15 switch controlling my porch lights for about 3 years with no problems.  Just light week I noticed that when turning on the lights, they will lose power for a second or so and then will continue to do so at intermittently.  More strangely, turning the switch (ON) will sometimes also momentarily trigger the horn on my parked car.  Just curious if anyone here has experienced similar problems or if this means it's time to replace the switch?

WB


You have a remote lock on your car, don't you? The switch is going bad, very bad. Some part of the control circuity/radio transmitter is momentarily hitting a frequency or harmonic that coincides with what's used on your car remote. Which is weird because car remotes generally operate in the 300 to 400 Mhz range, but Z-wave is generally around 900 Mhz. Like I said, the switch is going bad.

If resetting it like Z-Waver suggested doesn't help, replace it pronto.

Offline xeinth

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: New problem - intermittent lights flicker on the lsm-15 Evolve switch
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2015, 11:55:15 pm »
Same exact issues.  Has happened with 4 of these devices.  Replacing with evolve dimmers has no issue...  They last about one year then this failure mode.  And they do then trash other devices as a result.

Offline Z-Waver

  • Master Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 4407
  • Karma: +241/-120
Re: New problem - intermittent lights flicker on the lsm-15 Evolve switch
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2015, 08:28:04 am »
Same exact issues.
The switch flickers and your car's horn blows?

Quote
Has happened with 4 of these devices.  Replacing with evolve dimmers has no issue...  They last about one year then this failure mode.  And they do then trash other devices as a result.
I'm assuming that your switches are not all from the same batch. But, if they are, then you may have a bad batch.

I'm curious about how much load you are switching and how frequently they get switched. Do you think that this may be a factor, or do you think it's just bad switches?

If you would prefer to use an On/Off switch, rather than a dimmer as a replacement, then you might wish to try the GE12722 On/Off Switch. It is very similar in appearance to the LSM-15, though the LED indicator is different. It shares the same features including lacking Instant Status.

Offline xeinth

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: New problem - intermittent lights flicker on the lsm-15 Evolve switch
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2015, 03:48:40 pm »
No issues with car alarms =)

The issue I was refering to was the flickering.  To be clear, this isnt like a LED flicker but the light turning off and on quickly, you can hear the relay.  My issues were across multiple purchases from Amazon.  Most of my house uses dimmers, so largely these were used for outdoor lights:
-  First failure was a outdoor set of flood lights, and it lasted about a year.  Eventually when I was able to see it happen (not just hear it as its the front of the house), I replaced it with a new unit I had purchased about a year after the first one.
-  About 8 months later, it failed again. This time I thought it was the load, so I went ahead and switched the floods to LED to lower the current on it.
-  It failed again in about 6 months and I went to a dimmer.  Seems Ok.
-  Between the second and third failure on the front floods, the floods in the back yard had the same problem.  Went to LED/Dimmer, but should have considered somethign else
-  About 2 or 3 weeks ago the garage light (flourescent) failed the same way.   The failure was bad enough that the scene controller in the same box lost its config to Vera, and has a HORRIBLE connection as reported by vera despite being maybe 3m from the Veralite.

The network is otherwise pretty solid.  I'd say I have on the order of 100 zwave devices, the evolve dimmers out number the LSM-15 by at least 5X and no issues there.

So I'm pretty sure its the stupid LSM-15s.  The fail and they fail in a way that hurts the RF of the network somehow.

bk

Offline davegravy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New problem - intermittent lights flicker on the lsm-15 Evolve switch
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2015, 03:33:18 pm »
So happy I found this thread. I'm having the exact same issue. 3 of the 5 of these that I've bought have developed this issue in the last few months.

Evolve had the audacity of suggesting my house wiring was to blame!

I'm going to pull one of the failed ones apart,  figure out the failure mode, and post a condemning video on Youtube.  NOT HAPPY!  >:(
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 10:06:36 pm by davegravy »

Offline xeinth

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: New problem - intermittent lights flicker on the lsm-15 Evolve switch
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2015, 11:09:08 am »
Best of luck.  I had about 4 bad ones, replaced some with dimmers, remainder I'm switching to GE.

I'd prefer not to mix and match, so if you find something please let me know.  If you'd like for me to check any of my bad ones for a particular scenario I can check, but I was too lazy to bring them to the office and scope them out as its a very intermittent problem and I generally prefer to stick with voltages less than .9V.  =).

bk

Offline rbakley

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 97
  • Karma: +5/-2
Re: New problem - intermittent lights flicker on the lsm-15 Evolve switch
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2015, 05:44:29 pm »
I wouldn't be surprised if the problem turns out to be bad electrolytic capacitors.

-bob

Offline superjer2000

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New problem - intermittent lights flicker on the lsm-15 Evolve switch
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2015, 10:00:59 am »
Same problem here - LSM15 just started flickering after probably two years of service.  I'm going to see if Evolve will step up and replace the switch.

Offline niharmehta

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Karma: +14/-0
Re: New problem - intermittent lights flicker on the lsm-15 Evolve switch
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2016, 12:48:39 am »
I have had pretty high failures rates of my Evolve devices recently. Failures 3x LTM-5, and have and 2xLDM-15 and 1x LSM-15. The LSM-15  every so often audibly click repeatedly rapid fire.  My GE's have been stable (after a few  early failures) , and my Linear (who originally made the Evolves) have been rock solid . 

I can recreate the clicking on  demand by forcing a Configure Node command in vera. Other times it seems to act on its own, probably while polling or heal process.  Each time it does cause a power interruption when this happens.  Attaching a video of what is happening.

The flashing  you see (and audible clicks) happens when I send a configure to the node.  I was originally happy with my Evolves, but with the rash of recent failures, it seems like a very expensive mistake I made. I will try to see if Evolve will do anything about it, but knowing they are out of warranty.. I doubt it. 

Note: If you want to view it, change the extension to .mp4 if your video viewer has issues.. The restrictions in this forum on file sizes and type made me do some transcoding and extension change from mp4.
2x VeraLite; 2xTrane Tstats; 45 x Switches/Dimmers/Appliance Modules; 4x Everspring Water Sensors; DSC Integration; 2 x Zwave Door Locks; 1x Ted5K; 1x Rainforest Eagle; Onkyo AVR; 6x Squeezebox;

Offline Z-Waver

  • Master Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 4407
  • Karma: +241/-120
Re: New problem - intermittent lights flicker on the lsm-15 Evolve switch
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2016, 10:10:43 am »
That is pretty weird. It certainly seems that the switch is failing. But, as you said, it seems related to communication on the Z-Wave network rather than a physical switch/contact failure.

As an easy test I'd try;

- Exclude the switch. This resets it to factory defaults.

- Power cycle the switch with the airgap switch. Like rebooting a computer, this sometimes fixes problems with the Z-Wave logic board.

- Re-include the switch and see if the problem persists.


At least your car horn isn't blowing.

Offline niharmehta

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Karma: +14/-0
Re: New problem - intermittent lights flicker on the lsm-15 Evolve switch
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2016, 01:27:52 pm »
Unfortunately the LSM-15 (as compared to the LDM) do not have an airgap. However, I did disconnect it from the mains several times to reset it. 

I did try to exclude the switch, and this also failed. The switch would not exclude after several tries so I ended up just deleting it.  Definitely the switch had failed.  When I connected it to  mains power to test before I deleted (so I could exclude) , the switch buzzes/clicks continuously at a very high rate.

 I am not sure if there is an issue with the Evolve version of the firmware or hardware  vs. Linear/ACT versions of the same devices.   The date codes of my Evolve devices are in the 2011-2013 range so possibly there is a production flaw at that time.

What is interesting is that when some of these devices act up, it destabilizes the  Zwave network. I have had a couple of times where my mesh has been solid and almost 100% reliable for many months at a time and I wake up with several devices offline with a large number of random misses when triggering a device.  When I remove a suspect device, (Evolve every time so far),  the zwave network becomes stable again.   

 It makes me wonder if some of the problems people are having with UI7 and Zwave network problems could be related to bad  devices failing or some bug in the devices  related of the Vera+ zwave firmware version.
2x VeraLite; 2xTrane Tstats; 45 x Switches/Dimmers/Appliance Modules; 4x Everspring Water Sensors; DSC Integration; 2 x Zwave Door Locks; 1x Ted5K; 1x Rainforest Eagle; Onkyo AVR; 6x Squeezebox;

Offline nmoser1

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New problem - intermittent lights flicker on the lsm-15 Evolve switch
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2016, 06:39:07 pm »
Had the same issue with my LSM-15 Evolve switch today. Killed power on my circuit breaker to install two new smoke alarms (all I did was change the power connectors very simple). Turned back on power and the LSM-15 was buzzing very loud. Killed power and turned back on again and was still buzzing but then other LSM-15 devices were buzzing (very strange). Called electrician over and he could not figure out anything. We had a GFCI breaker trip a few times. Then all of a sudden everything worked normal again.  Electrician believes it is a bad LSM-15 device but I am not certain this is the case as the company I buy these from sells 1000's of these and has never seen it.  Electrician is going to come back tomorrow to see if we can re-create the issue. As of now I cannot recreate so not sure what the deal is. Any suggestions?

Offline niharmehta

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Karma: +14/-0
Re: New problem - intermittent lights flicker on the lsm-15 Evolve switch
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2016, 03:03:12 am »
is it a buzzing or a rapid clicking of the relay that you where hearing ? Did you have any loads on the buzzing LSM's that  you could tell if they were cycling power ?
2x VeraLite; 2xTrane Tstats; 45 x Switches/Dimmers/Appliance Modules; 4x Everspring Water Sensors; DSC Integration; 2 x Zwave Door Locks; 1x Ted5K; 1x Rainforest Eagle; Onkyo AVR; 6x Squeezebox;