Author Topic: Bali Blind Questions  (Read 2784 times)

Offline hellerbrewing

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Bali Blind Questions
« on: July 26, 2016, 09:24:30 pm »
I am currently having a new house built.  They are currently in the process of framing and I want to start thinking about wiring for shades.  I am thinking I will run a DC setup with Bali Blinds that will be controlled via Zwave.  I have 500 ft of 18/5 plenum thermostat cable and was planning on running it to each window.  I have a vera edge, but I may switch to something more robust before I get too far along with my setup.  I have done some research and would like some confirmation on a few things...

  • Do the Bali shades with the autoview remote have Zwave(+) built in and I won't need the extra ZRTSI unit?
  • What side are the motors on? Is this the side I should mount run the wires on?
  • I have some windows that are likely going to result in a run longer than 50 feet. Should I buy some 16 guage cable for these?
  • I want to start installing the wires while the walls are open, what would be the best way to determine where to poke the wire through the window frame?  Do I need to order a shade just to get the brackets and use as a template on the rest of the windows?
  • I am planning on ordering them off of Blinds.com.  Do I need to order the battery powered shades since they will be DC and wire them up to the power leads?
  • Which battery option do I need to select at blinds.com, single or dual filled reloadable battery wand?
  • Any suggestions on a transformer that will convert AC to multiple DC lines? Are they 12 or 24V?

Thanks in advance for any help.  Sorry that these questions are not directly vera related, but I am sure that they will get there as the project progresses.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 09:26:35 pm by hellerbrewing »

Offline rafale77

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Re: Bali Blind Questions
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2016, 09:30:33 am »
    • Do the Bali shades with the autoview remote have Zwave(+) built in and I won't need the extra ZRTSI unit?

    Correct
    • What side are the motors on? Is this the side I should mount run the wires on?

    Depends on the shade or blind. On most of them you can pick the side.
    • I have some windows that are likely going to result in a run longer than 50 feet. Should I buy some 16 guage cable for these?
    Yes. DC current has more voltage drop
    • I want to start installing the wires while the walls are open, what would be the best way to determine where to poke the wire through the window frame?  Do I need to order a shade just to get the brackets and use as a template on the rest of the windows?
    They are all different depending on the type. I would even order all the shades now.
    • I am planning on ordering them off of Blinds.com.  Do I need to order the battery powered shades since they will be DC and wire them up to the power leads?
    There are different types of motors. Some are DC some are AC 110V direct. Again it all depends on what you order. Most are DC these days since battery are a bit convenient to use, requiring no wiring. The AC/DC converter then is extra money.
    • Which battery option do I need to select at blinds.com, single or dual filled reloadable battery wand?
    Dual offer more capacity... changing less frequently
    [/quote]
    • Any suggestions on a transformer that will convert AC to multiple DC lines? Are they 12 or 24V?
    They are normally 12V.

    [/list]
    Thanks in advance for any help.  Sorry that these questions are not directly vera related, but I am sure that they will get there as the project progresses.
    Openluup (18 devices, 58 scenes, 11 apps) and iobroker controlling VeraPlus with 116 zwave nodes, 8 Zigbee nodes, 7 apps, 244 vera devices, 79 scenes; VeraEdge (0 node, 26 devices, 6 App, 0 scene); Bridged to Homekit and Alexa.

    Offline hellerbrewing

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    Re: Bali Blind Questions
    « Reply #2 on: July 31, 2016, 10:46:39 am »
      • What side are the motors on? Is this the side I should mount run the wires on?

      Quote
      Depends on the shade or blind. On most of them you can pick the side.


      I was referring specifically to the Bali with Autoview.  I would assume these are the same?

      • I have some windows that are likely going to result in a run longer than 50 feet. Should I buy some 16 guage cable for these?

      Quote
      Yes. DC current has more voltage drop

      Would speaker wire work?  It seems I can get speaker wire cheaper than regular 16/2 cable.

      • I want to start installing the wires while the walls are open, what would be the best way to determine where to poke the wire through the window frame?  Do I need to order a shade just to get the brackets and use as a template on the rest of the windows?

      Quote
      They are all different depending on the type. I would even order all the shades now.

      Again, if I stuck with all Bali Autoview would they be pretty consistent?  ... or should I just drill a hole in the jamb extension next to the window frame so it will be hidden by the shade bar.  I bought 18/5 wire in the hopes that some of the other wires could be used for glass break sensors down the road.

      • I am planning on ordering them off of Blinds.com.  Do I need to order the battery powered shades since they will be DC and wire them up to the power leads?

      Quote
      There are different types of motors. Some are DC some are AC 110V direct. Again it all depends on what you order. Most are DC these days since battery are a bit convenient to use, requiring no wiring. The AC/DC converter then is extra money.

      So I assume that I can power the shades via a 12V wire?  I found an older video that shows how to do this with the older bali line of shades.  I assume this can still be done with the Autoview?

      • Which battery option do I need to select at blinds.com, single or dual filled reloadable battery wand?

      Quote
      Dual offer more capacity... changing less frequently

      Same internals otherwise?  If I want to wire for 12V, does it matter which I go with?  If I do go with the batteries, what size do they use.  Are the dual filled AA?  Would they work OK with Eneloop rechargables?
      [/list]

      Offline rafale77

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      Re: Bali Blind Questions
      « Reply #3 on: July 31, 2016, 11:35:41 am »
      Ok you are assuming the auto view is different from the RTS... the motor is actually the same. Only the control is different so everything true for RTS holds true.
      Autoview though is only available on shades as far as I can tell. It is not yet available on blind tilts.

      The side again depends solely on the blind or shade design, not on the motor. I recommend you go on the home depot bali site and pick your shades and see what options come up.

      The batteries are Lithium AAs.

      Speaker wires are no different that any other wires. You just need to get the right gauge.

      Just a thought though... if you are going to go and wirelessly control your blinds, why bother with wires to power them? Might as well completely wireless with batteries. no?
      You have the option to wire but this seems to be a tedious task to then get power/transformer to each of them. Transformers can fail... You will need access to them. It means that you will need to have another hole somewhere on the other end of the wire. The look is never going to be cleaner than going battery operated too.
      Openluup (18 devices, 58 scenes, 11 apps) and iobroker controlling VeraPlus with 116 zwave nodes, 8 Zigbee nodes, 7 apps, 244 vera devices, 79 scenes; VeraEdge (0 node, 26 devices, 6 App, 0 scene); Bridged to Homekit and Alexa.

      Offline hellerbrewing

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      Re: Bali Blind Questions
      « Reply #4 on: July 31, 2016, 07:07:35 pm »
      I was going to run wires because I don't relish the thought of constantly buying batteries for them.  My thought was that I would run all of the power cables back to the equipment room and power them with something like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BBKCJ16/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl  I was asking for a recommendation for something similar in my first post.

      Battery powered might not be too bad if I could use rechargeable AA batteries.  Maybe the Eneloop PROs might be about equivalent to Lithiums.

      Offline rafale77

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      Re: Bali Blind Questions
      « Reply #5 on: August 01, 2016, 10:09:20 pm »
      Yeah I am planning to replace the lithium with NiMH rechargeable when they run out. I considered doing the same thing you did but decided to go with the cheaper and cleaner looking battery solution. How often you will change the batteries depend of course on how frequently you will actuate and the type of shade but I hope to get at least a year or two out of the batteries I have. Probably only a few months with rechargeables.
      Openluup (18 devices, 58 scenes, 11 apps) and iobroker controlling VeraPlus with 116 zwave nodes, 8 Zigbee nodes, 7 apps, 244 vera devices, 79 scenes; VeraEdge (0 node, 26 devices, 6 App, 0 scene); Bridged to Homekit and Alexa.

      Offline hellerbrewing

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      Re: Bali Blind Questions
      « Reply #6 on: February 01, 2017, 07:11:29 pm »
      So my house has been finished for a few months and I am in the process of ordering my first few shades.  I was not able to prewire them all, but I did get one that is high above a landing and will be difficult to reach.  The framing made it too difficult to to run wiring in the short amount of time I had to work on the house.  The A/V low voltage took precedence :)

      @rafale77, I was under the impression that you could not use the NiMH rechargeables with somfy motors because of the voltage difference (1.2 vs 1.5).  On the old setup you could get larger battery tubes that came with the solar setup that would add a couple batteries to make up the voltage difference.  However, talking to my blind guy tonight, he said that they no longer offer this option.  He recommended checking out rechargeable Lithium ion batteries, but they appear to be 3.7 volts, so I don't think that will work either.  Is there any other option for getting these rechargeable?

      Offline rafale77

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      Re: Bali Blind Questions
      « Reply #7 on: February 02, 2017, 03:19:57 am »
      So my house has been finished for a few months and I am in the process of ordering my first few shades.  I was not able to prewire them all, but I did get one that is high above a landing and will be difficult to reach.  The framing made it too difficult to to run wiring in the short amount of time I had to work on the house.  The A/V low voltage took precedence :)

      @rafale77, I was under the impression that you could not use the NiMH rechargeables with somfy motors because of the voltage difference (1.2 vs 1.5).  On the old setup you could get larger battery tubes that came with the solar setup that would add a couple batteries to make up the voltage difference.  However, talking to my blind guy tonight, he said that they no longer offer this option.  He recommended checking out rechargeable Lithium ion batteries, but they appear to be 3.7 volts, so I don't think that will work either.  Is there any other option for getting these rechargeable?

      The modern Eneloops LSD batteries I have are fully charged at 1.4V so I don't think I will have any problems. They drop overtime down to 1.25V but I will still give them a shot.
      Openluup (18 devices, 58 scenes, 11 apps) and iobroker controlling VeraPlus with 116 zwave nodes, 8 Zigbee nodes, 7 apps, 244 vera devices, 79 scenes; VeraEdge (0 node, 26 devices, 6 App, 0 scene); Bridged to Homekit and Alexa.