Author Topic: Upgrading to Vera Plus, not so easy!  (Read 594 times)

Offline Jlv

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Upgrading to Vera Plus, not so easy!
« on: February 08, 2017, 06:51:47 pm »
I have been having main memory issues with my VeraLite so I purchased a Vera Plus.  The Vera Plus came up well and I was able to start with the two units stable and running UI7.  That is where the good news ends.  I have spent days trying to move devices over to the Vera Plus and it has been rough.

I read that trying to use the controller commands for this process was full of problems and when I tried to bring my devices over that way I saw why.  A few devices made it but most did not and devices I never heard of started showing up.  I tried to delete these but I could not.  So I reset the ZWave devices and loaded a backup file on to the Vera Plus. I then started to look the task of doing it by hand.

I have about 35 devices that the controller works with and the first thing I learned was I had to have the manuals for each so that I could unpair and the include them on the new controller,  since I have only a few manuals left for my devices I had the happy task of removing devices from walls, fountains, etc. just to get the model number and then find a manual.  This turned into several days work but I was just getting to the fun part.

I started with the wall switch next to the controllers. I put it into exclude mode and was able to upair it from the VeraLite.  I then added it to the Vera Plus and it worked.  I thought I was on the path to making this upgrade work.  The next switch worked as well.  The third switch did not.  It would not unpair from the VeraLite nor could I get it to pair with the new Vera Plus.  I could not seem to get passed this.

 I tried other devices and I got a couple to work but the ones that didn't were lost.
Turns out that the VeraLite does not have the ability to pair/unpair without being close to the device.  I found this out by first bringing an appliance module close to the VeraLite.  It unpaired and paired back without issue.  But when I took it out of the room it would not Unpair.

 Ahah! I remembered that the VeraLite has a battery mode and I could bring it to the device and unpair it using the lights on the unit.  This I did with the devices that would not work and I got the fast blinking lights indicating the devices were not longer associated with the VeraLite.  However, the Vera Plus does not have a battery mode and you can't drag it from device to device unless it is connected to the Ethernet.  So I dragged out my 40' Ethernet cable (you can use up to 300' if needed) and brought the Vera Plus close to the first switch that would not pair.  You guessed it, it worked.  Using the long cable I was able to get the devices that did not work and paired them with the new controller.  It just took me 4 days to do it.
The issue seems to be that older z-wave products do not have the power that newer ones do.  So you may need to get the Vera Plus close to the device in order to pair it up.

So, if you are trying to upgrade I can give you a step by step approach to adding devices....
1. Get the instructions for how to exclude/include the device.
2. (If you using UI7) go to the add devices button. Pick out your device or choose Generic ZWave Device from the list on the screen.  When the next two screens come up hit the "Next" button twice and the controller will start the add process. Now put the device into include/exclude mode.  If all goes well great, if it just hangs there counting down, then:
3. Hit the "retry" button.  This will take you to the screen that deletes devices.  Attempt to exclude the device.  It it works, up at top of the screen, in blue, it will say "Node Finished".  It will then take you to the add device page.  Now attempt to pair it by putting the device again into include/exclude state.  If this does not work you must find a way to get the Vera Plus closer to the device.  I know of no other method to get older devices into the network.

This works even if you have not excluded the device from the old controller.  Good luck and let's hope that someday we will have the option to move devices, one at a time, from one controller to another with just the click of a button.  And, if that already exists I will be quite embarrassed.

Offline Chrisfraser05

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Re: Upgrading to Vera Plus, not so easy!
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2017, 07:22:04 pm »
Always start furthest from the controller when removing and closest when adding.

You can use the routing to help.

I have never moved my Edge, I excluded and readded a few sensors 5 rooms away through stone walls.

As soon as you removed the closest devices that was it screwed

Offline Jlv

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Re: Upgrading to Vera Plus, not so easy!
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2017, 07:47:46 pm »
Interesting and a good idea.  I have a repeater so I included it and moved it next to the device that would not pair.  I also updated neighbors but that did not work.
However, I wished I had used your procedure as it would make a difference.  Tks

Offline Branksome27

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Re: Upgrading to Vera Plus, not so easy!
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2017, 07:38:03 am »
I had been casually toying with the idea of upgrading from Vera Lite to Vera Plus and I browsed the
knowledge base on how that would be done.  Got the impression that if I followed the procedure it would be all hunky-dory

Then I looked at this scary forum and confronted a different reality

But then another thought.  I only have 4 devices that are fixed.  All the others are plug in modules. So presumably, for the purposes of an upgrade, if I were to reposition all the plug in units to form  direct geometric paths to each of the fixed units, make sure they all worked, then I could  transfer the fixed units to the new hub and then gather the portable units nearby and transfer them.  Would that make sense?

But contributing to the justification  for upgrading was the thought that I would gain a Vera Lite that could provide a hot backup if the newer hub failed.  But presumably the Vera Lite would now be an empty shell and not capable of acting as a quick easy set-up standby hub.  Would that be correct?

For me it seems ease of use by consumers  was not high on the list of design considerations for Z Wave.  I am glad I have still kept part of my old X10 network in use.

Offline Jlv

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Re: Upgrading to Vera Plus, not so easy!
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2017, 03:20:42 pm »
As far as I know all of your assumptions are correct.  With your set up, moving your devices to the new controller should be fairly straight forward.

It is unfortunate that there is not a quick/easy way to use the VeraLite as a back up.  It would require a save from one device and restore on the second.  I don't believe that exists yet.

Z-wave may have its limitations but it is light years ahead of X10.  I started my journey there and I am glad I switched.  However, with the new WiFi controls it appears that is the wave of the future.

Offline Branksome27

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Re: Upgrading to Vera Plus, not so easy!
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2017, 04:51:22 am »
As far as I know all of your assumptions are correct.  With your set up, moving your devices to the new controller should be fairly straight forward. 

Thanks

Offline Zoro

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Re: Upgrading to Vera Plus, not so easy!
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2017, 05:30:24 am »
Always start furthest from the controller when removing and closest when adding.

You can use the routing to help.

I have never moved my Edge, I excluded and readded a few sensors 5 rooms away through stone walls.

As soon as you removed the closest devices that was it screwed

Hi Chris--

  Good advice. I have about 60 devices, 20% of which are battery devices that do not repeat the z-wave signal.

  When I moved from a Vera 3 to a Vera Plus (and an existing network) the first day or two I had many devices that couldn't be detected. However, the network repaired itself and began working well. Many of the battery devices I had to exclude and re-include, but that number was relatively small.

   For awhile I thought I would have to exclude and re-include the entire network but that wasn't necessary.

Z

Offline timholmesjr

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Re: Upgrading to Vera Plus, not so easy!
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2017, 10:45:22 am »
When pairing / unpairing, I found it easier to plug the Vera into a long extension cord.  This would allow me to move the vera to close proximity to the switches without removing them.